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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 March 2026
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Displaying 2641 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Agenda item 3 is the committee’s second evidence session on pre-budget scrutiny. I welcome our witnesses. In the room, we are joined by Chris Birt, associate director for Scotland, Joseph Rowntree Foundation; Stephen Sinclair, chair, Poverty and Inequality Commission; and Emma Jackson, head of social justice, Citizens Advice Scotland. Edel Harris OBE, chair of the independent review of adult disability payments, joins us online. Thank you all for the support that you will give us this morning with our budget scrutiny.

A significant amount of money has been invested in social security in Scotland, and the budget is dramatically increasing. However, that is happening in a controlled fashion, if you like, as a result of policy intentions. For example, there will be an additional £489 million for the Scottish child payment next year, and disability benefits payments will be £452 million above the block grant adjustment. There will also be an additional £123 million for carers allowance, £100 million for mitigating United Kingdom policies in relation to discretionary housing payments, and spend of £155 million on the forthcoming mitigation of the two-child benefit cap.

We can quickly see how that all stacks up to a huge amount more money than the block grant adjustment. Although that significant investment is welcome, we must have the evidence to show that it is having the impact that we want it to have. I ask the witnesses to say—perhaps by referring to one or another of those measures—where the evidence is that the additional investment is having the impact that we would like to see. Where the evidence is not there, does that mean that there is a gap and that we need to collect data, or do we have to do something else? There is quite a lot in that question to start off our evidence session.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

That is very helpful.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Does the spend have a positive impact? Yes. Is it a massive investment? Yes. However, is it value for money? That is the next question that we have to ask. It is clear that spending huge amounts of money to tackle child poverty and support disabled people and carers will have a positive impact, but we have to ask whether it is value for money. If the policy intent is to tackle poverty and support disabled people and carers, is that suite of measures good value for money?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Thanks. I will bring in Jeremy Balfour to ask some supplementary questions, but it might be reasonable, when he asks his questions, if he brings in Edel Harris to comment on some of this, given the previous comments that we have had.

Over to you, Jeremy.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I am deferring to you, Jeremy, if you want to come back in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Do you mind if we move on, Alexander?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. We have apologies from our convener, Collette Stevenson, and from Michael Marra. Unfortunately, neither of them can be with us this morning.

The committee dealt with its first agenda item in private. We now move to agenda item 2, which is a decision on taking business in private. Does the committee agree to take agenda item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you very much. Disability payments were mentioned, so it would be appropriate to bring in Edel Harris next. I have no doubt that she will have something meaningful to say.

What evidence do we have that such investment is making a real difference, Edel? We know that there are gaps, because at last week’s committee session we learned that it was not clear how many people who claim ADP are in work and how many are out of work. We got some evidence on that from Emma Jackson, but where are the gaps? It would be quite helpful to have more information.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I will bring in Emma Jackson and will ask what will be my last question. Jeremy Balfour has a supplementary question and my other colleagues want to come in with a whole range of questions.

Are there any payments that are not value for money? I am sorry, Emma—you can swerve that if you like.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Who is that question for, Jeremy?