The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 194 contributions
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 8 October 2026
Bob Doris
I am not asking you for a specific example from any specific local authority—after all, I get that you are building relationships—but do you want to give the committee any examples at all?
10:00
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 8 October 2026
Bob Doris
Naomi, I know that that question was specific to Scotland Excel, but is there anything that you would want to reflect on in that exchange? You do not have to say anything, but this is an opportunity to add a comment, if you wish.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 8 October 2026
Bob Doris
Thank you, everyone. That is almost the end of our evidence session. I have not had the chance to share this with the committee yet, but following Naomi Mason’s comments about public service reform and workforce concerns, I take the opportunity to put on the record that there was a Conveners Group meeting yesterday with the First Minister. I was there on the committee’s behalf, and I asked specifically about the no compulsory redundancies policy and put on the record that the workforce sits at the heart of what any successful public service reform looks like. You would expect the First Minister to agree to that, but, as a committee, we have to scrutinise what it means in practice. I put that on the record before we close the public session because the point chimes very much with what Naomi Mason said and with what Mr Fagan asked in his line of questioning.
I thank Julie Welsh and Naomi Mason for their attendance this morning. I have certainly learned something from this session, and it has given me ideas about how we progress further scrutiny in this area. With that, we will move into private session.
10:38
Meeting continued in private until 12:02.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 8 October 2026
Bob Doris
Item 2 is evidence on delivering public service reform.
I welcome our witnesses: Naomi Mason, head of Scotland for the Centre for Local Economies; and Julie Welsh, the chief executive of Scotland Excel. I thank them both for coming along. We have indicated that they are welcome to make brief opening statements, and I invite Naomi to go first.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 8 October 2026
Bob Doris
I thank both of you for those opening statements and you, Julie, for the helpful written submission that you gave us in advance.
Our deputy convener, Michelle Campbell, who has a particular interest in the area, will open questioning.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 October 2026
Bob Doris
We will move to questions from Murdo Fraser shortly, but first I would like to check this point. If the NHS, SEPA or whoever were to say that there was a significant strain on their budgets regarding redeployment and on reskilling and upskilling requirements, could we expect the Scottish Government to have a discussion with those public bodies? Could there be budgetary recompense for them in that regard?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 October 2026
Bob Doris
That would be helpful. It was a long time ago, and I have to say that I have not looked at it in detail either. One concern at the time—we heard this in evidence from Helen Malo from Hospice UK—was that, as that reform took place, the financial benefits accrued to the acute sector but the spend was in the social care sector. We had not joined up the budget lines to get the best efficiencies. When that programme ended, many of the projects were not mainstreamed and a lot of that learning was possibly lost.
We might go back and look at the issue as a committee—I do not know. However, my appeal is that we all look back, not to lament what has happened but to learn the lessons of previous efforts to do some of this to ensure that the process is as good as it can be.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 October 2026
Bob Doris
When we look at portfolio budgets, can we expect to see a greater breakdown? Initially, headline figures will appear within the budget, and then we will have levels 2 and 3. It is always a blur in the first instance, when this all comes out. In those portfolio budgets, will there be a notional amount to take account of the cost of voluntary severance?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 October 2026
Bob Doris
Will there be a cost assumption in the money given to each public body when the budget is set for next year?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 October 2026
Bob Doris
You make a good point, cabinet secretary, about what the pay-outs would look like for voluntary severance. This is not an evidence session on what happened with Colleges Scotland. However, if I recall correctly, there were contentious issues around bonuses for some senior managers in colleges at the time, so it is to make sure that we apply best practice, which I believe was brought in after those issues with reform.
One thing that we know is that there will be lots of individuals, perhaps in the NHS, whose jobs will have changed dramatically or will no longer exist, having been reconfigured in some way. That means that there will be a significant redeployment strategy with no compulsory redundancies, and there will be a significant challenge in relation to reskilling or upskilling. How do you anticipate that being funded by each public service provider when it comes to public service reform?