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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 December 2025
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Displaying 2447 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Good morning, and welcome to the 31st meeting of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee in 2025. We have apologies from Collette Stevenson and Michael Marra.

Under agenda item 1, members are invited to decide whether to take items 4 to 6 in private, and whether consideration of our approach to the two-child limit policy and to the draft stage 1 report on the Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill should be taken in private at future meetings. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Our next item of business is our first evidence session on the adult disability payment. I welcome Edel Harris, former chair of the independent review of adult disability payment, who is joining us online. I thank her for joining us and will now give her the opportunity to make opening remarks.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

I say for people’s information that we can do nothing about the interference that we hear on the line, which is external to the Parliament. I apologise that it is a wee bit distracting, but I think that we can carry on with the evidence session.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

As long as—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you. I will open up questioning, although I always hate to ask the initial question, because it boils the entire report down to a very simplistic answer. We will look at each part of your report in turn and ask questions about it. However, by and large, what is the overall judgment on the way in which the adult disability payment has been implemented? Has it been implemented well, notwithstanding all the improvements that we would like to see, or does its implementation leave a lot to be desired? What is the message that you would leave us with? I apologise for boiling it down to a core message, but what is your comment on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

It was a very important line of questioning. You do not have to ask another question, but I can afford you a wee bit more time if you want to do so.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

I wanted to give you that opportunity, but I will sneak in with a supplementary.

I am not sure whether to take from that exchange that the Scottish Government should have a contingency fund or reserve that it can draw from in order to take account of the vagaries of UK Government decisions that might lead to block grant adjustments. If there should be a reserve, what should it look like? That is almost an open question, but it is about funding not only for social security but for the national health service, local government and education. Whatever UK decision is taken, some form of block grant adjustment will, by definition, be made either directly or indirectly, and sometimes we do not see such adjustments in the first instance. In your view as Auditor General, what percentage of the Scottish budget should we keep locked away for the vagaries of UK Government decision making?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

This committee—or perhaps our successor committee—will be looking at the new fiscal framework as it is developed. In our consideration of that, should our key message be that, whatever Government is in power, this Parliament must have strong levers to pull on for financial or income shock that is based on decisions that are made at Westminster? Should the committee be looking at that as we work out how to take forward social security and social justice in a devolved context, when we are asked to feed into the Scottish Government’s consideration of the new fiscal framework?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Our next item of business is consideration of a Scottish statutory instrument. I refer members to paper 3. The instrument is subject to the negative procedure. Given that members have no comments on it, I invite the committee to agree that it does not wish to make any further recommendations in relation to it and that they are content simply to note it. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

I am glad that I asked that question, because your answer sets the context for the scrutiny that we will now undertake in relation to adult disability payment.

The committee has looked at Social Security Scotland in the past, so we know that the agency already has a detailed measurement framework to measure how it is performing against the charter. We know that it also publishes quality and performance framework measures to report against all that. However, I appreciate that one of your key recommendations is that additional performance measurements are required. Will you say a little bit more about what is required and why the current framework does not pick that up?

10:00