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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 January 2026
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Displaying 2845 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Michael, you touched on hospital appointments. I highlight paragraph 29, which says:

“705 hospital appointments were recorded as GEOAmey failures. Of these, 561 were cancelled by the escort due to resourcing issues. Eighty-six appointments did go ahead late”.

However, the report also says that we do not seem to know much about the impact of those cancellations on the prisoners or on the NHS.

The NHS is geared up to receive prisoners for hundreds of appointments that are suddenly cancelled, presumably at the very last minute. The impact on NHS efficiency—we can look at NHS Forth Valley, for example—is not insignificant. Are there any plans to assess the overall impact of those delayed and cancelled NHS appointments, both on the health of the prisoners and on the NHS?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

I think that it probably is.

To move on from staffing levels, I note that the contract is, obviously, going to be retendered. What steps are the SPS and its partners taking to ensure that the contract will take account of all the external factors that are believed to be impacting on the current contract? In other words, how will they ensure that we do not head down the same path again? I realise that we will not—I hope—have Covid creating a disruptive factor, but, nevertheless, I would like to know how they are approaching that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Barlinnie is clearly a priority.

Very simplistically, we are talking about there being an underspend on the capital budget. That was the case in 2018-19. I presume that the underspends are not real underspends—they are just money that has not yet been paid out for on-going contracts and so on. Is it as simple as that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Is there a timescale for that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Maybe you can comment on the fact that—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Auditor General, I initially want to cover staffing levels and so on, which we have touched on already. Let us look at paragraphs 20 to 22. Paragraph 22 discusses

“a decrease of between 20 and 25 per cent on required levels.”

There is also a comment about “comparatively low pay” and you have made a comparison with supermarkets. It seems to me that there are only three possible reasons for that. Either there are no staff to recruit, with a shortage of staff in the market and difficulties with retention; the staff levels have been dropped in order to make the contract financially sustainable for the company, as deliberate policy; or, leading off from the possibility that staff levels were cut by the company to make the contract sustainable, and linked into that, there has been a deliberate suppression of salary levels. Later in the report, you mention increased salary levels being offered in order to recruit staff. Why was that not done earlier?

What, in your opinion, is behind the decrease in staffing levels? Was it deliberate? Is it the market? What is it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Will you be in a position to monitor the contract and the bidding process as that work goes forward?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

What support is the Scottish Government providing with regard to that process?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

I will move on to the final couple of questions. In paragraph 37, reference is made to the greater number of older prisoners in the system. At last week’s evidence session on NHS Forth Valley, comment was made about the ageing prison population and the increased pressure on the NHS as a result of that. What is the impact of a greater number of older prisoners? What level of support is required? There seems to be an implication that we should have a care facility in prisons. A number of reasons, such as sentencing and historical sex abuse cases, have been put forward to explain why the prison population is so much older. How is that impacting on the NHS and the SPS?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Colin Beattie

You said that the Prison Service is responsible for providing care. I presume that the prison officers have not been trained in that particular area. Do prisons bring in resources from outside—people who are qualified to provide that care?