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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 December 2025
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Displaying 2845 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Again, when it comes to the board, I would like some reassurance that proper scrutiny and challenge are in place, because—hopefully—we have learned through all the deficiencies that have been thrown up both in the audit and in the corporate governance review. What sort of reassurance can we have that those deficiencies have been rectified?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

My understanding, based on evidence that we have taken in other meetings, is that each NHS board has unique characteristics because of the way in which it has developed, and that there is a need for each board to provide some familiarisation for directors coming in. That is normal: it is not unique to the NHS. Non-executive directors are appointed to the boards of many different types of private and public organisation.

Let me move on.

Public Audit Committee

“Decarbonising heat in homes”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

Good morning, Auditor General.

Nothing happens without money. The whole programme hangs on whether public and private investment can be obtained in very large quantities. The fourth recommendation in the report is that the Scottish Government should

“clarify how it will use public money in the short and long term to support the delivery of its Heat in Buildings Strategy objectives, while achieving value for money”.

When would you expect the Scottish Government to be able to do that? What evidence would you expect to see in order to demonstrate that value for money is being achieved?

Public Audit Committee

“Decarbonising heat in homes”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

To me, there are two ways that the private sector can get involved. One is by directly financing discrete projects; the other is by providing finance to householders to carry out whatever works are needed in their homes. Has consideration been given to the balance between those? It seems problematic that the facility to go into debt to do that work will be particularly attractive to households. Has any analysis or work been done on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

I hear what you are saying—that training has been provided to the board over a period of years, that there is induction, and all the rest of it. However, that did not work so well. What is the point of training people and giving them all that guidance, when it appears on every side that that did not work and they did not take any notice of it? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the challenge?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

The governance review and the overall picture here at my desk do not look too good.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

That is a relatively short time.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

I am pleased if the situation has improved but, as we are an audit committee, we look backwards. We look at what was, not so much at what is, and we try to get to the bottom of it—to drill down as to why something happened and how it can be prevented in the future. That is our role.

It appears that there have been significant gaps in governance. We want to get to the bottom of that and find out how we can ensure that it does not happen again, because there is a pattern—this has happened elsewhere, albeit not necessarily to the same extent. We want to know, therefore, whether there is an endemic problem. For example, is there a problem in the recruitment processes? We look at everything.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of NHS Forth Valley”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

I will return to a point that I made before. Training is fine and necessary for a board when that is to keep members up to speed about new requirements or about how a process develops, but, when a board member is appointed, I would expect that person to have the skills, experience and ability to be a board member without needing a huge amount of training. If not, what is the point of appointing that person?

Public Audit Committee

“Decarbonising heat in homes”

Meeting date: 29 February 2024

Colin Beattie

For example, to what extent is the private sector going to be involved in just transition? Just transition implies helping those who are less well off to make the transition without getting into financial difficulties or fuel poverty, for example. I am struggling to see a role for the private sector in that, because the private sector requires a return. How does that work with public sector funding?