Chamber and committees

That is why I am keen for the Government to listen to the concerns raised by the EIS and to the experiences that local authorities want to relate to us about that time before Christmas 2020, or any other time when they felt that their powers were lacking, because that would clearly be a concern. As I said, we want to get that right and make sure that there is no dubiety about where the powers lie for that. The important powers around education lie with local authorities. The bill will give the Government particular powers only in a public health emergency, and without those powers being in place and a public health emergency happening, the powers for education remain with local authorities.

Convener, you will probably be glad to hear that I do not feel the need to expand much on what Mr Ewing has said. He is quite right to point to those specific details. Proportionality is key to how the Government would and, indeed, could move forward with any regulation. It makes sense for that provision to be included, because one of the lessons that we have learned is about the importance of continuity in education and ensuring that, wherever possible, we keep our schools, universities and colleges open, with as close to normal environments as possible.

The checks and balances provided by proportionality are key to our moving forward successfully during a public health emergency. I refer to my earlier answers on the right to life and protecting people’s health, but we must also think about the other harms that can be done if a Government introduces measures that are disproportionate to the level of public health concerns. Mr Ewing is quite right to point out that that is a key aspect of the bill.

As has been demonstrated during the coronavirus pandemic, the different Parliaments have reacted in different ways. I know that the English and Welsh approaches are different from the direction that Scotland is taking. There is a difference of opinion, and that has happened at different stages of the pandemic. One of the lessons learned is that sometimes we will learn different lessons from the pandemic.

When we look carefully at how the bill is progressing, we see the optimum way to produce legislation—in a non-emergency setting. The non-emergency timetable for the bill has involved a 12-week public consultation and the evidence that Parliament is taking. On the current timetable, we would expect this to commence—

I totally appreciate where you are coming from. The evidence that has been given and the work that has been done to show the real impacts in the wider justice sphere, particularly on children and young people, has been crucial. I give a commitment and a reassurance that the concerns about how children and young people are dealt with in the justice system are important at any point, but they are more important than ever during a pandemic.

I encourage all those who have concerns with this aspect—or, indeed, any other aspect—of the bill to continue their discussions with ministers and officials in order to see whether we can alleviate some of their concerns. I hope that we can do so in relation to some of the points that the commissioner has raised. I absolutely take on board the seriousness of the commissioner’s office’s concerns and the importance of the commissioner’s views on such matters.

As I said, it is not simply the view of the Scottish Government that the bill is compatible; the statement that was provided by the Presiding Officer—

If we have learned anything during Covid, it is that we, as a Parliament, work better on public health measures when we are united, if we can be.

For the reasons that I have read out—because I believe that some evidence that was given was based on a misunderstanding that there had been a derogation from aspects of the ECHR. We will of course continue to discuss that with the children’s commissioner.

As I said in a previous answer, we very much believe that the issue has been looked at seriously. The bill has safeguards around how the powers can be used. It has safeguards to ensure that we have regard to public health advice from the chief medical officer, and that any measures are necessary, proportionate and time specific.

I am confident that we have this right, but we will continue to work with stakeholders who have concerns to see what can be done to alleviate those concerns as the bill passes through Parliament. I absolutely appreciate that the committee is concerned about what the commissioner’s office said. I give the reassurance that we are very confident in where we are at, but we will continue the conversations with stakeholders.

I say with the greatest respect that we are taking our time. How long the bill takes to go through Parliament is up to Parliament—

No. We would get into that area only because of public health measures regulations. We are absolutely clear and confident that the bill does not affect the charitable status of universities.