Chamber and committees

We are always aware that any changes that the UK Government makes to a budget can have implications for the Scottish Government. That is not only a social security issue; it is an issue in every part of the Scottish Government. Changes that happen in parts of the UK Government affect the corresponding parts of the Scottish Government—in social security as in every other part of Government, whether health, transport or whatever.

Convener, I will be very careful about what I say on that point. I stand by my remarks that, having known Ricky Bell for some time, I think that there are striking differences between the views of Thomas Kerr and Ricky Bell on how to approach things.

To get into the details without making it a personal us-versus-them attack, it is important that we look at homelessness, the prevention of homelessness and the inevitable challenges that we have in Scotland over our level of homelessness. That is something on which other committee members have, rightly, challenged the Government.

The Government has said that we do not feel that taking away people’s rights is the right thing to do. Every homeless person in Scotland has the same rights as everyone else. That is an important factual statement, on which we need to be clear. I do not want to take away the rights of homeless people in Scotland. Although I recognise that there are challenges, and we are working very carefully with the council in Glasgow to see how we can continue to support it, I will not do that by taking away the rights of homeless people.

I do not know how many times we have to go through this. The local connection rule is about local connection from one local authority in Scotland to another. The changes to local connection would not make the impact that the member suggests.

There is an awful lot of misinformation on the topic. If Mr Kerr did not hear the point that has been made by the First Minister on a number of occasions, I make it clear again that the changes to local connection did not change the local connection rules for refugee households. We need to understand the legislation that is in place in Scotland.

As you said, convener, I think that we should take that point away, and I will get my officials to look at it. You will be well aware that the tribunals are independent of Government, so it is not for Government to opine or make judgments on the working of the tribunal service. However, let me take away the detailed policy point that you have raised, and if it is not for Government to get back on it, we could certainly forward your suggestions to the tribunal service.

That will be complete by the end of December, so I appreciate that what I am going to say will be anecdotal, rather than a full evaluation. In meeting local authorities and attending visits, as we all do, particularly over the summer, I have found it interesting to hear about how the ask and act duty can make a difference. On a recent visit in Edinburgh, I heard about a pilot that is being undertaken by the Scottish Ambulance Service and about how staff can feel supported to provide wider support.

I hope the member will forgive me for having only anecdotal evidence at the moment, along with the usual feedback that we get from projects. The full evaluation will come in due course, and we will provide that to the committee.

No, I did not say that. I said that I am open to stakeholders assisting us in analysing the best types of targets for tackling poverty. I am sure that many stakeholders will discuss income-based targets with me and that many of them will have other suggestions. I am open to the consultation process. I am not ruling anything out, and I am not saying that some things will not be part of our final discussions. I want to take part in a genuine consultation with people.

We are keen to continue to work with DPOs. I mentioned to the convener the work that we are doing on the cost of disability. We are also keen to work with DPOs to ensure that there is an understanding of the importance of ADP. That came across in the Edel Harris review. I appreciate that DPOs are disappointed that the Government has not taken up some of the recommendations in that report, but they had major cost implications that the Government could not address at this time. However, the report raises the importance of ADP and the support that it can provide to an individual and their family.

There were a number of points not only in the tackling child poverty delivery plan that we published before the election but in the manifesto and then the programme for government. I mentioned some of them in my opening statement, such as the £2 bus fare cap and the work that we are doing on food prices. The other aspects that it is exceptionally important to consider relate to whole family support. I refer to the funding that went to Children First for our national front door into whole family support and the £20 million third sector fund to ensure that we deliver further support.

There is a lot in the programme for government. It is not necessarily in the section on my portfolio, because it is about how we deliver better childcare and the work that we are doing to deliver more childcare, as per our manifesto commitment. It is also around the employability measures that are being undertaken. One example is the raising income through skills and education—RISE—initiative that we have taken forward with colleges. I heard more about that last week on a visit to see what is being done to ensure that people who are going to college receive the support that they require to complete their college course and then maximise their income. Whether it is childcare, transport, employability or education, a number of policies are intertwined with that initiative, as well as the more obvious areas within my portfolio around whole family support and the work that we are doing to implement the £40 Scottish child payment for babies under the age of one.

With stakeholders, I have gone through the different policies across the Government—the list is perhaps longer than the time that would be permitted to me to go through them today—that can have an impact on a household’s circumstances but that do not have an impact on child poverty targets that are based only on income. That results in a discussion that, inherently, focuses on increases in social security spending and does not allow us to have a wider discussion about childcare, employability and supporting people into employment. People will have different views on that.

I have heard stakeholders’ concerns about the review, but I am uncomfortable about our having a target when it does not allow a lot of the work that the Government undertakes to be analysed. Going back to the convener’s original question, on outcomes and ensuring success, the First Minister is keen to ensure that we are focusing on delivery of not just one aspect but a number of aspects. Delivery of some of the measures that impact household cost of living pressures is not currently part of an income-based target and, to me, that does not sit comfortably.

They are doing exactly what we would expect them to do, which is challenging the Government to go further. I am in firm agreement with those organisations on some areas and we continue to disagree on others. One of those is the call to further increase the level of the Scottish child payment. It has been suggested that the Government should increase the payment to up to £55 by the end of the parliamentary session. Those organisations will continue to say that we are not going far enough on that, and I will continue to say that the Government does not intend to do that and that we need to focus on the wider policies, which I have mentioned before. I expect that they have the same conversations with me as they have with committee members about pushing us to go further.

To save repeating myself I will not go through them again, but I have mentioned a number of the policies that are in the child poverty delivery plan and the programme for government, as well as other wider manifesto commitments that will impact child poverty. I think that those policies demonstrate that the eradication of child poverty is the First Minister’s and, therefore, the Government’s defining mission. Work is ongoing across the Government, but I am sure that stakeholders will continue to challenge me to go further on all aspects of that as we go forward.