Chamber and committees

I am going to be a bit blunt here. I was struck by the following paragraph in the Scottish Government’s submission:

“The crime of rape is committed by someone with a penis, including a surgically constructed penis. As the petition mentions, a person (male or female) can also be convicted of rape when their involvement was art and part (assisted in the perpetration of the crime).”

I note that the petitioners wonder whether, although that is technically the case, such a rape has been the subject of any subsequent prosecution. I do not think that that is entirely clear.

There are a number of people to whom we can write. I invite suggestions as to who they might be.

Welcome back. This morning we have our first evidence-gathering session, and I am delighted that we have with us Maree Todd, the Minister for Public Health, Women’s Health and Sport. Online we have, from the Scottish Government, David Bishop, mesh team leader, and—trying to join us, although he has not yet managed to establish a link—Terry O’Kelly, senior medical adviser.

PE1865 is a continued petition that was lodged by Roseanna Clarkin, Lauren McDougall and Graham Robertson. It calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to suspend the use of all surgical mesh and fixation devices while a review of all surgical procedures that use polyester, polypropylene or titanium is carried out and guidelines for the surgical use of mesh are established.

At our last consideration of the petition, on 8 September, we agreed to invite the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to give evidence at a future meeting. The Scottish Government has advised that the issues raised in the petition are within the portfolio of the Minister for Public Health, Women’s Health and Sport.

Having welcomed the minister to the meeting, my first job is to invite her to make a brief opening statement before we open up the floor for questioning.

Two suggestions have been made: first, that we close the petition and, secondly, that we draw the petition to the attention of the respective cross-party groups. I am not totally sure that it is within our competence to do so with groups that have not yet been officially recognised by the Parliament, but I think that we could do that. Indeed, I think that it would be useful for the elected members of both groups to initiate a discussion.

Do members agree to close the petition on that basis?

Members indicated agreement.

I want to take a moment to acknowledge the work of Mark McDonald and other former colleagues who did a lot in the previous session to ensure that these issues were at the forefront of concern and whose work in the area has helped inform, and has probably led to, the actions that the Government is now taking.

I invite colleagues to lead the questions, starting with David Torrance.

I observe only that fools rush in where angels fear to trend, minister, so I am grateful for your forbearance in holding back.

Did you want to add anything, minister?

I have just one follow-up question. One of the scandals that arose with transvaginal mesh related to the quality of the mesh itself. It turned out that the regime that was in place to ensure the highest standard of mesh material was really not robust and, to our shock and dismay, some of the mesh that had been fitted in some women was no different from the mesh that is found wrapped around packages that come through the post. Is a strong regime in place for the mesh procedures that we are talking about to ensure the quality of the product that is fitted in any operation?

I can say to Mr Bishop that, if we were relying on the MHRA at the time, it was woefully inadequate in its explanation of its procedures and in respect of the subsequent regulation to ensure that only proper materials were used. It is clear that some products bypassed that. Can patients now proceed with greater confidence?

Thank you. Are you content, Paul?

I apologise to David Torrance for not having properly understood the response to his earlier question.

As members have no further questions, I thank the minister, Hugh McAloon and Jacqueline Campbell for their incredibly helpful evidence and participation this morning. I think that I would like to reflect on the evidence that we have heard, have a chance to read the Official Report and then consider how we might take the issues forward at a subsequent meeting.

That brings us almost to the end of the meeting. For the benefit of everyone watching and committee colleagues, I want to place on record the committee’s thanks to our clerk Gemma Cheek, who is leaving us. Our loss is the Education, Children and Young People Committee’s gain. I am very sorry that she is leaving; she has been with the committee for the past two years and has provided us with a high quality of understanding and support. We very much wish her all the best in her new appointment.