Chamber and committees

I will make one general observation and perhaps make a constructive point.

As Michelle Hegarty identified, in terms of the high-level information that the committee receives, we are looking at one particular project; there have been questions about why there was not more information in relation to the project. I think that if we were to drill down into all the projects that the corporate body is overseeing and progressing, and provide the committee with that level of detail on them all, that would not be helpful or productive either for the progress of the budget or for the committee’s understanding of where it wanted to focus its attention.

If, on the other hand, there is a particular area of development in Parliament that is the responsibility of the corporate body and on which, ahead of the budget presentation, you would like to have more detailed information—such as you are perhaps seeking today in relation to the website—the corporate body could supply such detail in advance of its presentation to the finance committee.

It was you who said that, Alan.

I joined the corporate body just after the discussions about the website had taken place. I was handed the portfolio and had to go straight to the then Finance and Constitution Committee to sell the project, which was interesting. Those of you who have longer memories will remember that that was just after Alex Johnstone’s death, which caused my accession to the corporate body.

I have been involved in a series of projects in the years that I have been with the corporate body—for three years previously, and again since the election last year. Someone like me, who has been in business, looks at and them and thinks, “Crikey! This is a pretty eyewatering way of achieving things.” I am reminded at times that we are a Parliament.

I suppose that my mother would take the view that she would not change the light bulb in our kitchen until it popped, because she was going to get value for money from it. I think that If we took that view about the infrastructure of the building and just waited for things to fail—for the website, the lifts and everything else to fail; the telephone system might be next—people would not thank us for it. There clearly has to be a long-term projected look at wear and tear, obsolescence and the need to upgrade and monitor things, for which we need to plan over a number of years.

In this case, I know nothing about websites. Given the alacrity with which my SPCB colleagues agreed that I would represent them this morning, I take the view that there is no great depth of expertise among them—and naturally, therefore, in the corporate body—on the project.

With regard to our on-going monitoring of the website project, we have an idea of what the original estimate and the timescale were. We receive detailed information on all the expensive projects—some of which we can relate to more easily than others.

I hope that we will reflect on whether there are lessons to be learned from the way that this project has emerged and from the concern that has been expressed about it. I think that we have already suggested that the corporate body will have further discussion of whether other protocols could be put in place, and of whether there are natural points in the year when we should look at those things, just to ensure that we are offering whatever level of scrutiny we can offer within the portfolio of responsibility that we have.

I invite Alan Balharrie to answer that.

That is a suitably pejoratively phrased question, convener. As someone who does not access websites and things, I might find these things complicated, too. It certainly is the case that, if you were an internal building user, you understood how the previous website worked and were familiar with your way around it. However, it was a hugely lugubrious website. It had hundreds of thousands of documents in it, which were slowing down its operation and decreasing its efficiency. That is unlike any website for any Government department or Parliament that you would expect to come across. Our content was extremely dense and, if you were not one of the internal building users who was familiar with the site, you would not have had a good experience using it.

Have we got a final product that is incapable of evolving further? I am sure that that is not the case. I know that Susan Duffy is very much involved in engagement around how the website might progress, so it might be worth while hearing from her at this point.

I think that the answer to that is largely yes, and by the corporate body, on the advice that we received.

Michelle will come in, but the corporate body was made aware of both the overall project when it was launched back in 2017 and the years over which it would run. The budget for the website was not separately identified in each year. It is accommodated in the overall IT and digital budgets, so there was never any exceptional item. It is one of those things, along with maintenance of the building, that have to be planned for on an annualised basis over a period of time. Therefore, the corporate body was aware of it, in the sense that we understood the case for the new website and had been given an indicative idea of the likely cost of and timescale for website development. However, given that lead times for different bits of the project can be compromised in any one year, it was not necessarily the case that any one part of it was scheduled within the budget and identified separately as the bit of the website development that would happen in that particular calendar year.

You are right that it is reasonable for a Parliament to point to other Government services’ websites, because we are not a commercial business—we are a Parliament with an obligation to both internal and external users to ensure that we have a website that is fit for purpose with the capacity to serve the Parliament not just for a year but for the decade ahead.

I think that I know the reason for that, because we also asked that question, but Alan Balharrie should probably answer.

I do not know that I came to those value judgments on the development of the website any more than I do over whether it is time, quality or cost on the lift refurbishment programme.

The key point is that the corporate body is acutely aware that it is public money—that is where we start from in our examination—and that we must have a product that matches the quality and expectation of the Parliament. However, we defer and delegate to the people who are charged with the relevant responsibility for taking the project forward. We do not interfere in an executive way in the operational decisions that you just asked about.

The Finance and Public Administration Committee has its variable interest from one year to the next. I often used to be interrogated at excruciating length about the commissioners. The committee’s interest can shift in any given year, given the priorities of the public understanding of the Parliament’s work. The question that you put has to go to the people who were charged with delivering the project.