Chamber and committees

I thank the petitioner, but I think that we have exhausted our ability to take forward the issues in the petition. However, it is always open to the petitioner, in due course, to come back with another petition if it does not appear that the way in which the Scottish Government is trying to progress the aims of the petition through the conversations that it is having with individual local authorities is producing results.

Yes. In fact, that came out of the discussion that we had. Some teachers were inured to it, but some still could not cope and did not know what best to do.

I thank Monica Lennon for her contribution.

One thing that you touched on and that I found particularly chilling was the gratuitous and brutal violence by appointment. We heard about young people as young as 12 who played on the vulnerable among their peer group and solicited their attendance at a site where they had set up others to film the violence that they then perpetrated. They left unconscious two of the people who we met, only for the police, as we understood it, to feel powerless because of the current expectation that people under the age of 25 will not be pursued. That removed any sense of a need for anonymity among the people who did the filming, who actually thrived on the notoriety that they gained from their actions. The whole thing was thoroughly dispiriting.

When we were there, we thought that meeting members of the Scottish Youth Parliament would be a way forward. I understand that a member of the SYP participated in a round-table evidence session with another committee and, although this issue was not the focus of that committee’s inquiry, they gave the impression that this is not an issue that the SYP has been pursuing or collecting information on. Nonetheless, as that is an opportunity that is open to us, we might, at some stage, want to meet a representative body of people who encompass all of Scotland and not necessarily just the areas that we have seen.

I wonder whether we might want to take further evidence from some of the organisations and public bodies that might be able to influence the process. That would involve evidence at a future committee meeting from researchers, Police Scotland—certainly—the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, No Knives Better Lives and perhaps other youth representatives. Are there any other suggestions from committee members?

That is very helpful. We were minded to try to hear more from some young people, so, if that group were willing to participate, that would be of value.

I thank the members of the 6VT youth group in Edinburgh who we saw. It is held in a location that is quite central in Edinburgh—just off the Grassmarket—but I had no idea that it was there until we visited it. As I recall, it is on the grounds of the site of the home of Scotland’s first suffragette. It is definitely a safe haven where we saw young people growing in confidence, being able to draw on support and—I thought—maturing quickly as they worked together to tackle and combat the issues in their community. I commend them.

We might proceed on the basis that we hope to take evidence from various organisations that are relevant to the experience that we have had. We might come back to the Scottish Youth Parliament, or it might well be that Paul Sweeney’s suggestion of a group that could participate in giving evidence would be useful. Perhaps the committee would be content to delegate to me a discussion with the clerks on whether we have a round-table discussion or a formal evidence discussion. We can perhaps consider the merits of those and proceed accordingly. Does that meet with the committee’s approval?

Members indicated agreement.

Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee in 2023.

We have received apologies from our colleague Fergus Ewing. As this is the committee’s first meeting since the loss of their mother, we as a committee extend our condolences to both Fergus Ewing and his sister, Annabelle Ewing.

We have also received apologies from Foysol Choudhury, and I am delighted to say that we have back with us our former colleague Paul Sweeney, who is here in a reserve capacity this morning.

We are also joined by our former colleague Tess White, who will be here later, and—making up a galaxy of our regulars—both Jackie Baillie and Monica Lennon. Welcome to both of you and to Paul.

Sadly, party leaders are the bane of committee conveners’ lives, because they are forever removing our colleagues from the committee, and this is our last meeting with Alexander Stewart. I put on record our thanks to Alexander for all his work, particularly in relation to the committee inquiry that we have just done into deliberative democracy. I have had assurances that he will be available to participate in the debate when we bring that report to the Parliament in the autumn. Thank you, Alexander, for all that you have done on the committee.

Thank you for that passionate exposition of the objectives of Alison Dowling’s petition. I invite colleagues to discuss what our next steps might be.

The next petition, PE1947, lodged by Alex O’Kane, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to address the disturbing culture of youth violence in Scotland. We last considered the petition on 26 October, when we agreed to engage with communities and families that have been directly affected by the issues raised in the petition. The committee also agreed to write to the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, whose written response states that the primary prevention of violence is the most effective and cost-efficient form of prevention. It highlights work by YouthLink Scotland, which found the social return on investment in youth services to be at least three to one, with a note that that work is a fundamental part of any form of violence prevention work. It points to a survey of young people in England and Wales that suggested that one in seven young people had experienced some form of violence, including threats, bullying and low-level violence.

Members will be aware that, last month, members of the committee met an Edinburgh-based youth group, 6VT, and visited Milton in Glasgow to meet the petitioner and families with direct experience of the issues that are raised in the petition. We were joined on that occasion by our parliamentary colleague Bob Doris. It was one of the most engaging, courageous, moving and disturbing exchanges that those of us present have had with members of the public, who, along with their young people who had been the victims of violence, placed their faith in the hands of the committee and gave us visceral descriptions of the experiences that they had endured. I again thank all those who were prepared to do that. Obviously, and clearly, we uncovered a number of issues. Coincidentally, there was a debate in the chamber that same week, and I was able to make some general reference to the experiences that we had heard about on our visit.

This is an issue on which I feel that, given the faith that was placed in us, we are honour bound to take further action. Alexander Stewart, you were also with me on the visit. Would you like to add something?

I should qualify what I said earlier by pointing out that, although we met in Milton, some of the people whom we met had travelled from as far as Cupar in Fife to participate in the discussion. There was a local group that we had hoped to meet that day but, sadly, due to unforeseen circumstances, we were not able to meet. One of the things that I might reflect on with the clerks, if the committee is happy for me to do so, is who might be the most representative body of people that we can bring round the table.

Are members content with that suggestion?

Members indicated agreement.