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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 June 2025
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Displaying 3640 contributions

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Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

I am sure that it would have a full agenda.

Grahame Barn from the Civil Engineering Contractors Association Scotland is joining us this morning. Good morning, Grahame, and welcome to our proceedings. Later this morning, we will hear evidence from current and former Transport Scotland officials.

As members will be aware, since we last considered the issue, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Net Zero and Just Transition updated the chamber on the Scottish Government’s plans for dualling the A9. The committee has also received material from Transport Scotland with information about the advice on the A9 dualling programme that was provided to ministers between 2012 and 2023.

As the Scottish Parliament information centre summary of evidence notes, the documents range from brief extracts of draft budget proposals for ministerial consideration to lengthy briefing documents for major parliamentary announcements—and, my goodness, there were plenty of them. There was certainly a lot of material to digest.

It is worth remembering that the committee is not only interested in the circumstances of everything that has gone before; it is also concerned to ensure that we deliver on the aims of the petition, which are that the A9 project is completed and that consideration is given to having a memorial for the people who have perished during this period due to road traffic incidents on the A9.

Mr Barn, are you content for us to move straight to questions this morning?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Interestingly, that was the issue with the Queensferry crossing, in that the committee anticipated the need for public inquiries at various points in relation to the route, because the route and not the bridge itself was, by far, the most complicated aspect of that project.

Before I move to colleagues, I turn to what seems to be at the hub of much of what I have read. Does the industry think that the current approval processes for major road and other infrastructure projects in Scotland have proved to be fit for purpose? If not, what needs to happen to make them so?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

I am delighted to bring in our colleague and reporter from a sister committee, Edward Mountain.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Is that a declaration from the Edward committee? [Laughter.]

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Finally, Mr Ewing, do you wish to come in briefly?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Mr Barn, thank you very much for joining us again this morning. You have given us more time than we had anticipated you would have to give, and your answers have been extremely helpful. We might speak to you again; we certainly look forward to reflecting on everything that you have said today.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

We are back. Our colleague Oliver Mundell has had to leave us due to another commitment. I apologise for that to our colleagues and to the witnesses who now join us. I hope that you were able to hear the earlier evidence session. I see that you were. It was very interesting.

From Transport Scotland, we are now joined by Alison Irvine, interim chief executive, and Rob Galbraith, head of project delivery,. We also welcome Roy Brannen, a former chief executive of Transport Scotland, and Michelle Quinn, who is both a former director of major projects and a former interim chief executive of Transport Scotland. A very warm welcome to you all.

You will have observed our previous discussion with Grahame Barn. I want to emphasise that our inquiry has two purposes. First, we have an interest in the events that led to the delays and why we are where we are today in respect of the project. However, secondly, the aim of the petitioner is, of course, the delivery of a completed A9 route and one or two other issues, including a memorial. Our focus is very much on ensuring that we deliver on that. This is not some sort of kangaroo court of inquiry into the events of the past. We are interested in those as they reflect on where we are today and how we can ensure that we complete the project.

If everyone is content, we will move straight to questions, starting with Fergus Ewing.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

As we are on this area, I will ask a question before I come to Mr Choudhury.

The committee has received a lot of briefings, and my question partly refers to historical material that we have received. In 2021 and 2022, Transport Scotland’s cost estimates for completing the project ranged between £4.5 billion and £6.25 billion. In December, though, the cabinet secretary announced a total programme cost of £3.7 billion at 2023-24 prices. I am keen to try to understand how we have arrived at £3.7 billion, having had those two earlier cost estimates quite recently prior to that.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Who is going to commit to the timescale? Alison Irvine has indicated that she will respond.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Mr Galbraith, would you like to respond to that?