Chamber and committees

I remember meeting—it was ironic—the headteacher of my wife’s old school. I was a councillor at the time and we did a charity football match. I felt as if I was back in school, because he was sat there encouraging me as we played a game of football as older people. It was interesting.

Those are all my questions.

Good morning. When I ask anyone about public service reform, I always say that the public sector reform process that is happening out there and that we are going through will probably have an impact on everything that we are delivering. [Interruption.] Should I shout, convener, so that the microphone can pick me up? [Laughter.]

My question follows on from Laura Moodie’s question. Additional support needs cover a broad grouping of young people, but we are living in a world in which the percentage of young people in schools who have ASNs is hitting 48 per cent. I know that the sector will probably melt down when I ask this question but, when we consider how we deliver and what the outcomes will be, is there any talk—it is maybe not being discussed—about making additional support needs part of teacher training, as opposed to having a separate additional support needs teacher?

10:30

Still on public sector reform, I asked a question of COSLA—I do not even think that I asked; the representative just came out with it—about an anecdotal claim that, abroad, probationers and other placements were dealt with differently. We were talking about how, in rural schools, sometimes, it is difficult to recruit staff. Even in the central belt of Scotland, people come into my office saying that they cannot get a job in Paisley but there is one in Motherwell, which they think is the other end of the world. That problem came from a guy who used to work in Perth and lives in Paisley, by the way—not that I am bitter about it.

I feel that I have to ask the question, because COSLA went away and looked at it and found that the guy was talking a lot of nonsense. Basically, it found that we have a very good teacher offer in Scotland, because an eligible graduate gets paid in a supported post right away, as opposed to the situation in other countries, in which it is left to the market, effectively, to decide. There is a balance to be had, but the opportunity is there for certain schools to be left out because their posts are hard to fill. Why are we still having difficulty with such questions, when, on paper and given what I have from COSLA, part of the job is to pick five local authority areas or take the waiver and go anywhere. Why do we still seem to have those difficulties? Is that a public sector reform thing that we can sort through regional authorities, or is it just the 32 different councils doing different things? It just seems to me that, given the way that the system is—the way that COSLA has explained it—we should not be having those problems.

As long as we are not talking about a Glasgow city region or Strathclyde, which is just another Glasgow city region—that is a pet view of mine.

Finally, the teacher workforce planning advisory group says that we have too many teachers and that there are shortages in some secondary subjects. Is that situation normal or is it just how it is currently? What does the Government plan to do to balance that out?

I understand that teachers get additional support needs training as well but, given that some 48 per cent of children are in the additional support needs bracket, that should surely be a major part of being a teacher in the 21st century. Surely that is one of the things that we should be looking at.

Looking at the examples that COSLA has given us from Ireland, New Zealand, Ontario in Canada, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland, it seems that the majority of schools in those countries are a wee bit more in charge of the process themselves, and individual probationers have the power to decide where they are going. With the work on public sector reform, that could be a halfway ground, but it may leave us open to having gaps in certain areas where people will not apply to teach. There might be something to look at in those examples.

Good morning, everyone. Andrea, you mentioned that you would love to talk to COSLA and the Scottish Government about the delivery of the proposal that we are discussing today. I hope that you can talk to us about it, too. I think that Tara Lillis also suggested that we ring-fence some education funding. We tried that in the past, and the employers and COSLA were not too keen on the idea.

The backdrop to my question is public service reform, which is going on in the background while all of this is being decided. The reduction in class contact time has been agreed and banked—it is there—but delivery will depend on 32 local authorities that are facing different workforce, subject shortage and geographical pressures. How do we protect professional time for teachers if local government is going to be restructured in the future? Should Scotland examine whether it would be better to organise functions such as teacher workforce planning, recruitment or deployment at a national level, at a regional level or through shared services?

That is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. Why can we not just do it everywhere? I hope that we do not just draw the boundaries with a big Sharpie, as the 1990s Tory Government did in the Scottish Office, but instead have an ongoing conversation. Every one of you has answered by saying that it is important that we focus on service delivery. We are talking about public service reform, and it has to have outcomes at the end of the day.

As I said in the earlier evidence session, we are hoping that we do not have the equivalent of Ian Lang up in the Scottish Office with a big marker pen, deciding boundaries and things such as that—that was the case in the previous reorganisation. It is more about service delivery itself. I used to be a councillor—that was not yesterday—and, at that time, we talked about corporate parenting, which was about how we councillors, as corporate parents, delivered that. We need to get to the stage where it is more about the delivery of the services. You were, in effect, just giving us a warning that, if we do not get it right, we will end up taking up the big marker pen.

Exactly—it is an ongoing conversation, and the Government is also looking for ideas. To go back to Andrea Bradley’s point, that gives you the opportunity to say, “We think we can deliver by doing it this way.”