Chamber and committees

The principal process for considering those issues and the options for going forward is through the work of the global task force, which is looking at what is happening in other parts of the world and the approaches that are being taken, including within the EU. That will inform our approach. Different countries will take different approaches to how they want to restrict international travel, based on the advice and information that they receive from their clinical advisers and those assessing the risk of international travel. That is the approach of the Scottish and UK Governments, and discussions that we are having at UK level are very much informed by the clinical advice and by thinking about how we can help to address some of the sector’s concerns about the need to open up international travel while minimising the risk of importation of variants of concern.

I have no doubt that, if I were appearing before the committee and we had removed all international travel restrictions and we were facing challenges as a result of having imported variants of concern, people would be asking, “Why did you remove those restrictions?” We need to ensure that we take the process forward in a safe, managed manner, so that we do not expose ourselves to variants of concern, which could undermine our existing successful vaccination programme.

Oil and gas workers working in the Norwegian sector of the North Sea need to comply with the RAG ratings—with what they should do on the basis of whether they have come from a red list country, an amber list country or a green list country. If they are travelling from Scotland to Norway and are based here, the regulations would be those that apply in Norway. When a person is returning to Scotland directly from Norway, what would happen would be based on where Norway is in the RAG ratings.

Individuals who are working in the oil and gas sector may come to Scotland for only a very short period of time in order to go back to the North Sea. We used to have a system in which they were required to get a test package for a test on day 2 and day 8, but that was changed back in August, following discussions with the oil and gas sector to ensure that it was carrying out regular testing of its staff. As a result, people who are in Scotland for only a day or two before they return to the North Sea no longer have to purchase a test package. Those amendments were made specifically to address concerns that the oil and gas sector had, and they followed discussions with the industry on its providing us with assurance on its testing arrangements for individuals who work in the sector.

Similarly, if seafarers are returning from a red list country, they are required to comply with the RAG rating and to go to managed quarantine facilities. If they are returning from an amber list country or a green list country, our restrictions for those will apply.

The approach that has been taken since the introduction of the traffic light system has significantly changed some of the early issues that we had for oil and gas workers and seafarers. However, there are restrictions that remain in place for both groups of workers if they are returning from a red list country, for reasons that are related to the risk assessment that was carried out by the joint biosecurity centre.

I might bring in Penelope Cooper or Graham Fisher to address that.

The restrictions that apply to seasonal agricultural workers are that they are required to self-isolate, and employers who bring in such workers must provide accommodation in which they can do that. If the workers come in from an amber list country, they will have to isolate for 10 days and will have to be tested on day 2 and day 8 if they are unvaccinated. If they are vaccinated, they will be tested only on day 2. There is a requirement on employers who bring in such workers to provide accommodation for them in which to self-isolate. Local health boards and local public health officials will then be responsible for managing the situation, along with the company that has brought them in to work on a seasonal basis, and for making sure that they comply with the regulations.

That can involve spot checks to make sure that people are self-isolating if that is what they are meant to do. Alongside that, we have a testing regime in place so that, if anyone becomes unwell, they have access to testing. They can be tested and, if necessary, further self-isolation can be required for them and individuals with whom they reside.

There are fairly tight restrictions around those people coming in on flights. For example, some of them have dedicated transport to take them to their accommodation, and arrangements are in place for them to self-isolate there in order to minimise the risk of importation of the virus and its being spread locally. I do not know whether officials want to say more on that, but the package was designed to help to support the sector at a key point in the year. It was agreed with public health advisers as being proportionate and appropriate in order to manage the risk of importation of the virus.

I am happy to appear in person in future, if the committee would prefer me to. Like most people, during the present circumstances, I am trying to minimise the amount of time that I spend in different rooms meeting with different people, hence the reason why I am in my office today but, as I said, I am happy to come to the committee room in future.

The QR codes were available from 3 September, which is last Friday. As far as I am aware, the system appears to be operating fairly well. I am not aware of any particular issues with it. With any new piece of technology, there is always the potential for hiccups, but I am not aware of any particular problems having been identified to date.

There is close engagement. Our officials are engaged almost daily on some of the issues. Would I say to you that the relationship across the four nations on dealing with some of the issues is satisfactory? My answer to that is no. There have been times when the UK Government has indicated to us a desire to change things at very short notice without meaningful dialogue with not just the Scottish Government but our counterparts in Northern Ireland and Wales. That has led to a difficult situation in trying to address some of the issues and concerns that we have about the very sudden changes that it intends to make.

By and large, the system works okay, but I would not say that it is a good system. There has been a tendency at times for the UK Government to seek to make changes at very short notice, without engagement with the other devolved nations. That issue has been raised with it regularly.

Has that adequately been addressed yet? No, it has not. I know that the Deputy First Minister has raised the matter with Michael Gove on many occasions, but despite assurances, ministerial meetings have continued to be called at extremely short notice—sometimes quite literally with only hours’ notice that there is to be a meeting to discuss, for example, issues around international travel.

I have tried to make the system work, as best I can. Sometimes, that means dropping things, with perhaps only an hour’s notice, to take part in meetings to engage with UK ministers on changes that they have decided to introduce without giving us forewarning. A lot of work needs to be done to ensure that we have a relationship that takes into account the distinctive role that the devolved nations have in those policy areas, and to ensure that any planned changes allow them an opportunity to consider those matters in detail and to provide feedback before final decisions are made on changes to, for example, international travel regulations.

The principal restrictions that we have in place are based on public health needs, rather than on environmental needs. The restrictions on international travel were put in place to minimise the risk of variants of concern, as I mentioned.

The role that aviation can play in helping to tackle climate change is important. The aviation industry has started to address that, but it still has a lot to do in helping to reduce the impact that aviation has on our climate. We are doing some work at Scottish Government level to support the industry in that. There is no doubt in my mind that we want to reduce the impact that aviation has on our climate, but I do not think that the way to do that is through public health regulations, which are specifically to manage risk from the pandemic.

Will people’s behaviour change in the future? Will folk choose to stay at home more for their holidays? I suppose that the answer to that is unknown. We do not know yet whether there will be significant change in people’s domestic and international travel patterns. Will more people choose to make use of trains rather than domestic aviation? Again, there is a lot of uncertainty around that. Research has been carried out into it, but it is difficult to know whether some of the behaviour changes that we have seen will be sustained. Globally, will people’s travel behaviour change so that there is less international travel for leisure? That is a bit of an unknown. I suspect that there will be some changes, but their scale and nature are not yet clear, and it is not known whether they will be permanent.

I will ask Professor Leitch to deal with the question, because the health ministers lead on vaccination certification and he will have been involved in some of those discussions. He will be able to tell you a bit more about the internal process within the Scottish Government in relation to vaccination certification.

The first thing to say is that nobody wants these international travel restrictions in place for any longer than is necessary. We want to bring them to an end as soon as it is safe to do so. Our traffic light system, which is operating across the UK, was proposed by people in the travel industry as a more effective approach and a means for opening up international travel to green-list countries, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach that does not allow any international travel. The system was designed to open up international travel, which it has achieved to some extent.

Going forward, we will see a greater focus on the importance of vaccination. That is being considered by the global task force, which is being taken forward at UK level. With the other UK nations, we are engaged in that work of looking at the options for the future. That will have a particular focus on the need for individuals to be vaccinated and to have certification of that. It will also consider what changes might be made to the traffic light system, and there will then be discussions at a four-nations level about the most appropriate route, based on the clinical advice that we receive and the advice from the joint biosecurity centre. On the timeline, the final milestone for the UK global task force report is 1 October. The work is to help inform what future changes could look like. I cannot tell you exactly what those will be, because we have not yet had those or the outcome of that process.

Be assured: nobody wants international travel restrictions for any longer than is necessary. However, the future will involve a significant focus on the need for vaccination—[Inaudible.]

I do not have direct control over that; as I said, the UK Government, as the host nation, does. However, my understanding is that its vaccination offer was made specifically to address the risk of those who are due to travel from poorer nations and who have no access to their own vaccination programme by getting them that access in advance of their travelling. That was what it was targeted at, but, as I said, I do not know the full details of which countries have taken up the offer, as the programme is being run by the UK Government as host nation.