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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 November 2025
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Displaying 996 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Michael Matheson

That is helpful; thank you.

Is there a danger that the bill as drafted could act as a disincentive to capital investment in SAF production at Grangemouth? One investment might be £900 million, with the other project having up to £2.1 billion of capital expenditure, both at today’s prices.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Michael Matheson

No—that was helpful. I do not know whether anyone else wants to comment on the importance of the sector.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Good morning. It is important that, before introducing any provision that creates new criminal law, we are clear about the nature of the gap in the law that we are trying to address and how the new offence would operate in practice.

Given the definition of “ecocide” in the bill and how that relates to the 2014 act provisions, can you give me a practical example from the past 10 to 20 years of an offence that the existing regulatory framework in Scotland has been insufficient to deal with and regarding which this new criminal law would have enabled us to prosecute an individual or an organisation? I will come to you, Jamie, given your expertise in Scots law.

09:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Can you remind me of the circumstances of that example?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Excuse me, but that is not the question that I asked. What I am asking is: if a worker acts in such a way that results in ecocide, under the basic definition in the bill, who should be sentenced by the courts?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I want to turn to sections 1, 3 and 4 of the bill, which deal with the issue of liability. In the bill, liability is split broadly into two forms: individual liability, which requires “intent or recklessness”, and the responsibility of an organisation or an individual in an organisation, in the provisions on “consent or connivance”. Some have suggested that the threshold that has been set for liability in the bill is too high. Do you agree?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Simon Parsons?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Does anyone else in any other sector have any experience of changes coming about as a result of its introduction?

Nobody? Okay.

My final point is on the issue of who should be liable. We heard evidence in the earlier session that liability should rest largely and solely—it would be fair to say that I am paraphrasing—with the decision makers and the directors in the organisation, and that the workers should be protected from the provisions in the bill. Given that your members are directors, Catherine, what is your take on that suggested change to the bill?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I just want to make sure that I understand this properly. If someone in your organisation carries out an act that results in what, under the bill, is defined as ecocide, who should be liable and face prosecution for committing the offence: the person who initiated it or the directors?

11:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I come back to Shivali Fifield. I want to understand fully your explanation regarding the issue of liability.

If an employee, under your definition of “worker”—I am not too sure how you would create that definition—were to act in such a way and commit an act that constitutes ecocide under the bill, and they are found to have done so and the case is proven, who, on the basis of how you are trying to amend the bill, should go to prison for 20 years?