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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 January 2026
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Displaying 4176 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am sorry to interrupt you, but I understand that the public sector workforce numbers are some 47,000 higher than they were. The approach is not about reversing that increase but reducing the workforce by 12,000 over four years, which would still be a significant increase in the workforce.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Sticking to the issue of workforce, you have pointed out that 16.8 per cent of people aged 16 to 64 who are inactive reported that they wanted to work. You touched on the no one left behind programme, but you went on to say:

“It is unclear currently to what extent this will result in tangible or significant differences in labour market participation compared to the rest of the UK and over what timescale.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Robinson, you have said:

“The Scottish Government’s own publication on the national strategy for economic transformation notes that in 2019, while Scotland ranked seventh among OECD countries for higher education research and development, it ranked only 24th for business enterprise research and development.”

Has there been any advance on that since 2019?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

We all love numbers—always think in numbers.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. Mr Robinson, you have said:

“There are some clear consistencies between the MTFS, the fiscal sustainability development plan and public sector reform strategy. In particular, the MTFS and FSDP both focus around the three pillars of prioritising spending, economic growth and tax strategy.”

However, later in your paper you go on to say:

“To ensure effective public administration, we need to avoid duplication and ensure consistency in measurement and process.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. I will now open up the session to colleagues around the table. First, we will hear from Michael Marra, to be followed by Liz Smith.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thanks very much.

I have to say, John, that I think that public health has advanced phenomenally in the past century or so. Life expectancy in 1900 was 47 in Scotland, and in that year in the city that you represent 14 people died of plague. We have since managed to eliminate scarlet fever and diphtheria; smallpox has been eradicated worldwide; polio has been eradicated; penicillin has been discovered; we have insulin; cancer deaths and heart attacks are a lot lower; and diets are better than ever. It is not just about things such as child mortality.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. I thank both our witnesses this morning. Are there any further points you feel we have not touched on that you would like to highlight?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. I will now call a break until 10.45 to allow a changeover of witnesses.

10:41 Meeting suspended.  

10:47 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I will bring in Ross Greer next but I say to our guests that if you do not start answering questions yourselves, I will start picking on you.