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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 January 2026
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Displaying 4176 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Last year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I have loads of questions, but I will not ask all of them—the committee would lynch me if I did. It is a bit two-dimensional to say, “It’s about expenditure,” or, “It’s about eligibility.” If we have a growing, thriving, inclusive economy, people will come out of poverty. It is about treating not just the symptoms of poverty but the disease itself. I have always believed in independence not just for Scotland but for individuals.

We have not really touched on how you decide whether to spend on one benefit versus another. For example, how does the Scottish Government decide to continue to cover the costs of the bedroom tax—frankly, most people who receive the benefit think that the tax was abolished years ago—versus its expenditure on free school meals? How do you decide which one you should go for? Also, how much will the mitigation of the two-child benefit cap be per child per week?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Absolutely.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You seem to be prepared to answer it, from what I can see.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I must say that you referenced old technology in your submission, but not new technology.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

When you say “considerable impact”, do you mean a positive or negative impact?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Frankly, there is a fear of the unknown in many organisations. They think, “We’re going to have to adopt this, but do we have to do it this week?” or, “What’s the implication going to be for the workforce and the whole structure.” I led the first debate on AI in the Parliament, way back in 2018, and the information that we had then about the impact on employment was completely different from the information now. At that time, the sectors that we were told would be most adversely affected and those that would be boosted were completely different from the scenario now. That issue is still being grappled with.

I will move on to capital investments in a couple of minutes, because a few people mentioned that in their written submissions, but a couple of folk want to come in at the moment.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Item 2 is to take evidence from two panels of witnesses on responding to long-term fiscal pressures, as part of our pre-budget scrutiny 2026-27. We are joined by Richard Robinson, senior manager, Audit Scotland; and João Sousa, deputy director and senior knowledge exchange fellow at the Fraser of Allander Institute. I welcome you both. We have your submissions, so we will move straight to questions.

I will begin by asking Mr Sousa about one of the things that you said in your submission. It is quite interesting, and it relates to a point that I put to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government last week. You said that, under the medium-term financial strategy,

“No area of spending is assumed to fall in real terms—all areas are presumed to grow in line with inflation except those areas which are likely to grow more than that”,

such as the national health service, social security, pay and local government. Basically, you are saying that the MTFS assumes that there is no prioritisation, because everything is prioritised. Let me have your further thoughts on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Sousa, you said that the statement that

“the devolved workforce will fall by 0.5% a year”

and

“this will have no effect on frontline services ... seems implausible in the absence of some pretty heroic improvements in productivity”.

Half a per cent a year doesnae seem that heroic, really. I know that we are talking about not just 0.5 per cent but 0.5 per cent over and above what productivity would be anyway. Will you talk us through how we can deliver that 0.5 per cent?

Without referring directly to them, you have alluded to compulsory redundancies, which I have raised many times in the committee. You went on to say:

“There is no reason to suspect that the people retiring or leaving the Scottish public sector will be doing so in the roles that need eliminated—a real plan, looking at the hard choices of what needs and does not need to be done, and how the skills for that match up with the ones available in the redeployment pool is what is necessary, and it seems to be missing from the FSDP.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Sousa, in respect of people who are economically inactive, you have talked about the need for a person-centred approach and for Scotland to emphasise skills in order to broaden the tax base. You have also talked about how, for example, there are real problems with capital formation, especially in net terms. Can you talk to us a wee bit more about that?

You go on to say:

“UK capital spending remains lower, barely above replacement level, and so does Scotland’s. Every year we invest less than peer countries, the gap in capital stock grows, which then results in the large gap in productivity we see today.”