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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 4778 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
In response to Tess White, you talked about audit, statutory reporting and parliamentary scrutiny all playing a role along with the national performance framework in assessing the success of Government policies. Where does the NPF fit in that landscape? For example, is it weighted relative to those other areas? How does the Government decide on that?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you for that opening statement. In time-honoured fashion, I will ask some opening questions before members of the committee join in with their questions.
You said in your statement that outcome budgeting is about allocating resources based on the outcomes achieved for people. Has the national performance framework helped to deliver that? If so, will you give us a couple of examples?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Of the 81 indicators, performance is improving in 17, maintaining in 42 and worsening in 11, while there are four in which performance has still to be confirmed and others that are in development. We appreciate that the situation is evolving.
With regard to the indicators in which performance is worsening, some seem fairly obvious, given the effects of Covid, and include places to interact, social capital and economic growth. However, with others, it is hard to see why things are worsening. In the fair work and business section, for example, we see a decline in the number of high-growth and innovative businesses and in the employee voice, although I should say that four of those indicators—economic participation, employees receiving the living wage, the pay gap and gender balance—have improved. Why have three indicators worsened, and how is the Scottish Government responding to that situation?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
I just have a final question, as I know that colleagues are keen to come in.
There are the 81 indicators, but there are also the 11 national outcomes, which are exactly that—national. As a result, when we look at the indicators where performance is improving, maintaining or worsening, we are actually looking at a national picture. How do we assess what is happening in different parts of Scotland through the national performance framework? In some areas where performance is maintaining, there might be parts of the country in which the situation is improving consistently while in others it is deteriorating. If the indicator just says maintaining, that could mask a huge differential across the country. Obviously we cannot have thousands of different indicators, because that would be ridiculous. How does the Government look beyond the figures of worsening, improving or maintaining to find out what is within the body of the kirk?
10:15Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Well done, cabinet secretary, you have responded to more than 30 questions from the committee. However, we are still within time, so I will ask some short questions to finish off.
Audit Scotland has said that there are inherent challenges in delivering an outcome-based approach. For example, Audit Scotland states:
“It is difficult to separate out what impact public services have on outcomes, as many factors are outside the direct control of the public sector.”
Audit Scotland says that effective joined-up working, early planning and an understanding of the evidence and its gaps could all help to resolve the issue. How can those gaps be closed so that we have a much fairer picture?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
How do you weigh the NPF relative to other areas? If indicators are worsening, improving or maintaining their position—whatever it happens to be—how do you decide that additional resource might have to be shifted from A to B to address matters?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2021 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We have received apologies from Liz Smith, so Tess White is attending as her substitute for the Conservatives. I welcome Tess to the meeting. As this is the first time that she has joined us, I invite her to declare any relevant interests.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you. I am now going to open up the meeting to colleagues, and the first questions will be from the deputy convener, Daniel Johnson, to be followed by Michelle Thomson.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
The national performance framework has existed for 14 years. When it was created, it was considered to be world leading. Is Scotland a better place because of it and, if so, how? Will you evaluate that?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2021
Kenneth Gibson
We shall end on that positive note. I thank the Deputy First Minister and his officials for coming along and I thank the Deputy First Minister in particular for his expansive contributions and responses to questions.
I am especially pleased to have had the witnesses in the committee room in person. We have found that having witnesses in the room greatly improves our interaction with them. Today’s witnesses have greatly improved our understanding of the workings of the national performance framework.
Meeting closed at 11:24.