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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 4778 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

That was very diplomatically put.

I will move on to my final question, which is on the £1 million contingency for enhanced security support for members. I realise that some prudent assumptions have been made in regard to that, which works out at about £8,000 for each MSP. What indications do you have of uptake? I know that it is relatively early days, but certainly I will not go up to anything like that level. What information does the SPCB have at this point?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Local government is a bone of contention, as it is every year. According to page 11 of the SPICe report, four portfolios have had a reduction in cash and in real terms, and one of those is social justice, housing and local government. However, last night, I received a copy of the local government finance 2022-23 total revenue support, which looks quite reassuring overall. According to that, across Scotland, the budget increases from £11,043 million to £11,853 million, which is an increase of £810 million, or 7.3 per cent, so that looks good. However, £319 million of that is undistributed, so could you confirm when that will be distributed and how it will be distributed?

When I looked at the increase in funding for local authorities, I was disappointed to note that the wealthier and more prosperous areas, such as Aberdeenshire, East Renfrewshire and Edinburgh have significant increases of 4.3, 4.8 and 4.9 per cent. However, if we look at the poorer areas of Scotland, we see the Western Isles getting a 2.1 per cent increase, West Dunbartonshire getting 2.9 per cent, Inverclyde and Glasgow getting 3.3 per cent, Dundee getting 3.1 per cent and North Ayrshire, which I represent, getting a 3.5 per cent increase. I am aware of the local government funding formula, but surely when we have a challenging funding situation we cannot have the areas with the highest poverty, highest unemployment and an ageing population—because many of the younger people are moving outwith Scotland or to more prosperous areas of Scotland such as Edinburgh, East Renfrewshire and Aberdeenshire—getting lower local government settlements.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much, cabinet secretary. The committee looks forward to examining the report from the three Davids.

As you are aware, the committee has been given conflicting information and advice regarding the size of the Scottish budget from the Scottish Fiscal Commission, the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Scottish Government and the Fraser of Allander Institute. We will take the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s figure for examination and consider its implications.

The SFC says that the Scottish Government’s budget next year will be

“2.6 per cent lower than in 2021-22”

and that

“after accounting for inflation the reduction is 5.2 per cent.”

At the same time, spending on the Scottish Government’s largest social security payments, including new payments, is forecast to be £764 million more than the funding that it is forecast will be available through the UK’s block grant adjustment in 2024-25, which will reduce the funding that will be available for other spending priorities.

The latest SFC forecast shows that Scotland is lagging behind the UK on economic performance, that income tax receipts are falling behind the block grant adjustment and that social security spending is exceeding the block grant adjustment, so how do we ensure fiscal sustainability?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

As long as that is on a non-commission basis.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, that is very helpful. I have a final question. You talked about choices; you have made your choices, and we can agree or disagree with them. In discussion with Opposition party representatives, have they provided any choices to you? In other words, rather than just asking for additional expenditure on a number of areas, have they pointed out where in the Scottish budget reductions can be made or taxes raised in order to fund their demands?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for patiently answering my questions. I will open up the evidence session to other colleagues.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

In that case, it might be a couple of years before we can analyse that in any great depth.

Jackson, you and I were both list MSPs before being elected as constituency MSPs, and I am sure that you will agree that there is no comparison in terms of workload. How much longer will the SPCB pretend that there is no difference between the workloads of list and constituency MSPs, and will future assessments of staffing costs reflect that reality?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

That is helpful. That takes us up to 625 staff—is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I will not repeat my earlier questions, because they lead on to a similar question. In the budget submission, you say that the SPCB is

“committed to enhancing the scrutiny function of Parliament, including promoting citizen participation, to enable our legislature and its members to perform their roles.”

You also talk about the

“scrutiny challenges arising from Brexit”

and say that

“these complex issues will create significant ongoing scrutiny challenges for the Parliament, and its committees, throughout session 6”.

You continue:

“we now need to move towards a more stable and sustainable staffing structure to best support scrutiny in this new, more complex environment.”

Both you and Jackson Carlaw have touched on that. You went on to talk about the “huge challenge” of net zero.

For the record, how long do you expect the uplift in scrutiny work that has been caused by Brexit to last? You say that it will be “throughout session 6”. Will that work peak at any point or will it continue at the same level? How do we quantify the huge challenge of monitoring progress on net zero and how do we estimate the additional staff required to assist MSPs in that work?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 21 December 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I asked specific questions about how the requirements have been quantified, because the budget bid, at £112.161 million, is very specific. If additional staff will be required, either to look at net zero or Brexit, or to enable committee scrutiny by strengthening committees, it would be helpful to know what has been decided with regard to staff numbers and the additional budget that would be required for those staff.