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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 October 2025
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Displaying 3805 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I turn to Adam Stachura. Age Scotland’s submission refers to the need for

“long-term investment in preventing ill health and tackling poverty.”

Again, that is focusing on prevention. It goes on to say:

“The Scottish Government should provide more funding to energy efficiency schemes”.

Given that we are deliberating over the budget, how much more do you believe that the Scottish Government should invest in such schemes?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

There is a slight difference between a CPO and a CSO. With a CSO, you are not buying a property; instead, you are forcing someone to sell it.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have one final question. If additional resources are to be invested in advice services, what is the optimum additional sum that you would seek to provide the maximum benefit? Obviously funds are not unlimited and you will get diminishing returns, so what is a realistic increase in advice services that would bring the most return with regard to the assistance that you provide?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

My last question is for Kevin Robertson. Compulsory sales orders were a Scottish National Party manifesto commitment in 2016, but it was not delivered in the previous session of Parliament, partly because of the Covid pandemic. I asked a written question about the issue and was referred to a question submitted by Paul Sweeney. When I looked at that, it said that the question had not yet been answered, so that was a body swerve there.

Does the Scottish Property Federation support compulsory sales orders? A lot of high streets and other streets have been blighted by buildings that have been left empty for 15 or 20 years and that have been difficult to get moved on. In the previous session of Parliament, there was cross-party support for the measure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

It would help if people could actually speak, for the purposes of the Official Report.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

We move to our second evidence session on pre-budget scrutiny today. We will hear from Kevin Robertson, who is chair of the Scottish Property Federation, and Joanne Walker, who is technical officer for the Chartered Institute of Taxation and its Low Incomes Tax Reform Group. Joanne is joining us remotely, so once again members should make it clear which witness they would like to respond, and our broadcasting team will turn on their microphones. I will aim to give both witnesses a chance to respond to questions, but if Joanne wishes to respond to a specific point, she should indicate to me by raising her hand and typing R in the chat function on the BlueJeans software package.

I declare an interest as somebody who owns a property and rents it out. I intend to allow around an hour for the session. Members have received copies of both witnesses’ written submissions. Without further ado, I welcome our witnesses to the meeting and start by asking a question of Joanne Walker.

In your submission, you say that you

“do not”

wish to

“put forward suggestions of particular powers for devolution or specific policy proposals.”

Why is that?

Secondly, with regard to the Scottish budget and its taxation policies, do you believe that it conforms to Adam Smith’s principles of fairness, certainty, convenience and efficiency?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I touch on a couple of areas that we have not covered so far, the first of which is that wee tax that Michelle Thomson mentioned—the land and buildings transaction tax, which still brings in a few bob. I am intrigued by the difference in the submissions on this point. In his submission, Kevin Robertson says:

“We are particularly concerned about the 10% tax band, and believe that its threshold should be increased to £500,000”.

In her submission, Joanne Walker says:

“following temporary relief from Stamp Duty Land Tax”—

as it is called south of the border, and as it was called here before LBTT came in—

“for first time buyers ... in 2010 – 2012, HMRC undertook an evaluation. It concluded that the majority of the 1 per cent tax relief (0.5-0.7%) was in fact capitalised in higher prices”.

Has there been any assessment of the impact of that with regard to revenue? After all, there is no point in our increasing a threshold to assist the sector if all it means at the end of the day is that prices go up, revenue declines and no one is any better off.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

My next point is for Joanne Walker. If the UK assigned that money and more money came in—obviously, this is hypothetical because it is not happening yet—that would allow the Scottish Government to reduce rates and make the high street more competitive.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Hold on—I will ask all my questions in one, because I want to let members in. I am trying to give everybody one hit.

Secondly, your submission says:

“Fundamentally one of the core issues that must be addressed here, is appropriately resourcing funding to local authority services”.

The issue there is that, unless you mention specifics, the Scottish Government will just say, “Well, we think it is adequately resourced.” We may or may not disagree with that.

I turn to disinvestment. Age Scotland came to a previous iteration of this committee, of which I was also convener, when Callum Chomsky—or Callum Chomczuk, I should say—was in your role. He said that Age Scotland would support an increase in the age at which people get concessionary travel from 60 to 65, although John Swinney did not agree with that at the time. Does Age Scotland still support that view?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I am sure that other members will want to explore that issue further.

I will move on to Laura Mahon. Alcohol Focus Scotland also provided an excellent submission, which makes one or two suggestions that could be implemented without spending money. An obvious one in relation to prevention is increasing the unit price of alcohol. The submission talks about

“a public health supplement to non-domestic (business) rates, applied to retailers licensed to sell alcohol and linked to volume of sales”

and the

“creation of a new local public health tax that applies a levy to the sale of alcohol in the off trade”.

How do you see such policies being delivered, if they were to be implemented? How much money would they raise? Have you thought through exactly what you mean by “volume of sales”? Would it be 5p for every bottle of spirit or something per meterage? Will you explain how such policies would work, if the Scottish Government decided to take them forward?