The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 4778 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
Politicians as victims?
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
More than 30 years ago, when I was a Glasgow city councillor, the council decided to consult on the closure of seven of its 36 secondary schools. After a very long consultation, the decision was taken—remarkably—to close those seven secondary schools. Rather than deciding to close five or six of them, or even to close different ones, the council decided to close those seven specific schools. The decision had already been made. The council went out to consultation, but there was really no intention of taking any cognisance of it. Of course, everybody who responded to the consultation said, “Please don’t shut my school”—blah, blah, blah.
There is an issue with consultation. I consider that “participation” is a better word than “consultation” if people are directly involved and participating in decision making. That example was from three decades ago, and a lot of cynicism has built up since then about how impactful consultation is. To many, it often seems to be a box‑ticking exercise.
09:45
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
I should say that three members of this committee are retiring. We do not know whether there will even be the same clerking team in the next session of Parliament. There will be fundamental changes to the committee, even if the remit stays the same. That is before we have an election—not all of us might get back in.
Do you want to respond to that, Ian Elliott?
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
I was going to come on to that particular issue, because I do not see directly elected conveners as being a solution whatsoever. For example, you might have 60 new MSPs. Will we even know who those folk are, by and large? People will know who their party colleagues are, of course, but how will we—those of us who are re-elected, if we get re-elected—know who to vote for? We need 16 conveners. After you have taken the ministers out, you will not have many people left who want to be a convener—I will not be a convener in the next Parliament if I am re-elected, for example—so you might have a pool of only 20 folk who are even interested in doing it, and you have to elect 16 conveners out of those. How do you avoid the party whip being used to say, “Okay, it’s a free vote, but we’d really like you to vote for Mr X or Ms Y”? I do not see that that will somehow be the magic bullet that improves committees.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
I know what you mean. Labour is guaranteed two chairs and the SNP is guaranteed four or whatever, so the chairs have to be elected from that group.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
There is also an issue about the degree to which the MSPs who come in after the election are risk averse.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
I would just say that the issue is not about the Parliament not holding ministers to account—everybody agrees that ministers should be held to account. The issue is that the relationship that ministers have with civil servants makes it difficult for them to be held to account, if you know what I mean. I am not articulating this very well, frankly, but the point is that ministers feel loyalty to the group of people with whom they work every day, and they believe that what they are being told is correct and is how things should happen, and that, if there are delays, there are really good reasons for that, which others might not see or agree with.
There is a degree to which ministers are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. There is an issue about how far ministers are able to push their civil servants before they are accused of bullying or whatever. There is always a balance to be struck in terms of how that is done.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
No one is in charge of this committee. It is all done through consultation.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
Agenda item 2 is stage 2 consideration of the Budget (Scotland) (No 5) Bill. Members should have a copy of the bill, the marshalled list and the list of groupings, which are also available on the Scottish Parliament’s website.
Only the Scottish Government can lodge amendments to budget bills, and the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government has lodged several stage 2 amendments for the committee’s consideration. The list of groupings sets out the order in which the amendments will be debated. Members who wish to speak in any of the debates should indicate that by catching my eye or the attention of the clerk.
We are joined by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. Under standing orders, her officials who are present are unable to participate in formal stage 2 proceedings.
I move straight to the bill.
Section 1 agreed to.
Schedule 1—The Scottish Administration
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 February 2026
Kenneth Gibson
Amendment 1, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 2 to 5 and 9.