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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 4111 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The issue for us—you might not feel it from where you are sitting—is that it almost seems as though you have been insulated, relatively speaking, from the really hard decisions that are being made by the public sector across the board, given that, as I said, the Government’s cash uplift was 2.6 per cent and the minimum uplift of the organisations before us is 7.4 per cent. I think that the NHS and local government and the police would also say, “Salaries are a huge chunk of what we do.” I think that we are all in that position.

Some commissions and commissioners have been around for many years. I think, and I think some of my colleagues will agree with me, that when an organisation is set up there is a head of steam, a mission to accomplish, and a lot of things that it wants to do initially. One thinks of a big burst and then settling almost into a steady state, perhaps. Maybe I have this wrong, but that is why, when there are big jumps in terms of budget you think, “Well, why is that happening?”

I understand from the Information Commissioner’s point of view that the number of FOI requests is going up all the time and there is a real issue about that. We do appreciate that, but in other areas one wonders. Have other colleagues anything that they want to say?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, indeed. One thing that all the written submissions have been very clear about is the roles that you all have. They are all really well written submissions, so I compliment you on that.

We had a private session with a colleague who talked about New Zealand and where all the overlaps are. We also looked at the UK and where the potential overlaps are there. There is a lot of concern about overlaps, and indeed gaps in Scotland. Is there any overlap between the two of you?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, indeed.

One thing that has been talked about a lot is the issue of overlaps and gaps. I will come to all of you, but I will first go back to you, Ian. Do you feel that we need a Standards Commission for Scotland and an Ethical Standards Commissioner? Is there not an overlap in the remits? Could the two be merged, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Lorna, David and Ian, do you agree with that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

But who is not going to say that? The NHS would say that, the police would say that, and local government would say exactly that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You think that they are completely distinct.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Where would gaps exist?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You do not think that that could be more efficiently and effectively done under one umbrella.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What about you, Brian?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning and welcome to the 15th meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The first item on our agenda is to continue to hear evidence in relation to our inquiry into Scotland’s commissioner landscape. We are joined by Ian Bruce, Ethical Standards Commissioner; Dr Brian Plastow, Scottish Biometrics Commissioner; David Hamilton, Scottish Information Commissioner; and Lorna Johnston, executive director, Standards Commission for Scotland. I welcome you all to the meeting. I am sure that you will be very helpful to our deliberations. I may direct questions at one individual or ask you collectively; it is up to yourselves whether you want to come in on the back of someone else’s response.

What stimulated the inquiry was, firstly, the rising cost of commissioners, as well as their proliferation. For example, in January we took evidence from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on the annual budget round for the current financial year. At that time, we were faced with a 2.6 per cent increase in cash terms in the Scottish budget, which as you know, if you know the gross domestic product deflator, is significantly below the rate of inflation. When we looked at the office-holders, however, we found that the actual funding bids were all significantly in excess of that. For example, the four organisations represented here today made bids as follows: the Scottish Information Commissioner asked for an 8.1 per cent uplift; the Ethical Standards Commissioner for a 13.2 per cent uplift; the Standards Commission for Scotland for a 7.4 per cent uplift; and the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner for 12.4 per cent.

The national health service, the police and so on did not get those kinds of uplifts. Obviously, I have your submissions here but, for the public record, could you say how you feel that those increases are justified at a time of tremendous financial pressure? Who would like to go first? Yes, Brian; you have a fairly small budget, I suppose, although I am interested in hearing from everyone.