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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Displaying 4111 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

A few are being taken back, actually, but never mind.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That applies not just to the commissioner but to the MSP who puts forward the proposal, of course.

That has concluded questions from the committee. Before we wind up, do any of the witnesses want to make any final points on any issues that they feel we have not covered?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Right. In a presentation that we were given, there was a list of 19. That might have been going back to the 19th century.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. I thank our witnesses not only for their patience in waiting so long to speak but for the excellent level of evidence that they have presented in response to our questions.

Before we go into private session, I note that, next week, we will take evidence from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body.

13:07 Meeting continued in private until 13:22.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that. You have also said:

“devolution has afforded some scope for differences in matters of people policy and on how the Scottish Civil Service operates”.

Can you expand on that a wee bit?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. Jackie McAllister has been waiting very patiently.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that comprehensive answer. I am sure that, like me, colleagues will have spent a joyous weekend in the sunshine reading the quality production that I am holding up—the Scottish Government’s bill handbook. One of our concerns about that is that it does not seem to include a definition of a framework bill. That issue has caused great concern to this committee over the past couple of years, particularly in relation to, for example, the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. I am wondering what progress will be made to try to ensure that we have a definition of framework bills.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Our next agenda item is to continue to take evidence as part of our inquiry into Scotland’s commissioner landscape. Before I welcome our witnesses, I apologise for the fact that they have been kept waiting for almost an hour by the question and answer session beforehand. That was not anticipated, and we will try to ensure that it does not happen in future. I want to formally apologise for the time that you have been kept waiting.

Our witnesses are Lynda Towers, convener of the constitutional law and human rights committee of the Law Society of Scotland; Dr Ian Elliott, senior lecturer in public policy, centre for public policy, University of Glasgow; and Professor Alan Page, emeritus professor of public law at the University of Dundee. I welcome you all to the meeting and I will now open up the session to questions from members. I intend to allow around 75 minutes for this session, depending on colleagues’ questions and of course your answers.

I want to start by asking about something that I found intriguing in the Law Society’s written submission. Basically, it is about the comment that

“The recognition of a fourth branch of government in addition to the three traditional branches—the Legislative, Judicial and Executive—has been occasionally proposed in constitutional law literature.”

That is, the integrity branch, which includes audit offices, independent corruption commissions, ombudsmen and parliamentary committees. Ms Towers, will you expand on that a wee bit?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes. One thing that I thought about when reading that point about a possible fourth branch—an integrity branch—is that it almost consolidates commissioners and so on as part of the landscape. I do not know that committee members are necessarily all too enthusiastic about that, given the issues of democratic accountability, costings et cetera. Professor Page, what is your view?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Do you think that we do?