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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 3649 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Slightly less than 5 per cent of the health and social care budget is transferring out, but it is only 0.5 per cent for the rest of the budget. It looks out of kilter that such a huge chunk of money is being transferred from health and social care. It looks as if those are political decisions rather than delivery decisions. It seems that the revisions are being skewed each year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Where are we with capital? We have seen, for example, £89 million from resource being put into capital, and we have seen that money being taken back out. Will you talk us through that a wee bit?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The volume of transfers in the autumn revision is about 2 per cent of the overall budget, which is now more than £60 billion a year. There are very significant changes in some portfolios within that budget; the one that I think is most significant is the transfer of some health and social care to local government. For example, we have seen investment of £257.2 million to support the integration of health and social care and the transfer of £230 million from health and social care to local government for staff providing direct adult social care. There are half a dozen more examples, amounting to some £909 million.

10:45  

It seems that, every year in the autumn revision, we have a situation in which parts of the health and social care budget are transferred out. For example, we have £57.8 million going from health and social care to education and skills to pay for teaching grants for nursery and midwifery students. There seems to be a difference between where the policy is and where the delivery is. Every year, we ask whether there are any proposals to change that. Given that there is a transfer from health and social care to education every single year, surely it would be more sensible for that money to appear in the education portfolio at the start of the financial year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that, but the committee is a wee bit blind on that. At the time of the previous budget, we were promised a pipeline of capital projects in March of this year. That is now being put back to next year. We cannot really see where the Scottish Government is going and how it is managing to deliver on its objectives around capital, because we are not really able to see what those delivery objectives are. Are you able to enlighten us at all on any aspect of that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I thank colleagues for their questions.

Agenda item 2 is formal consideration of the motion on the instrument. I invite the minister to move motion S6M-14800.

Motion moved,

That the Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the Budget (Scotland) Act 2024 Amendment Regulations 2024 [draft] be approved.—[Ivan McKee]

Motion agreed to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I do not pretend to be Mystic Meg—I hope that no one will ask me for next week’s winning lottery numbers—but I predict that the same switch will happen next year and possibly the year after. I urge the Scottish Government to look again at where it positions those resources at the start of the financial year, because it seems daft to have to go through that process every year.

I understand what you are saying—you would not know the specific amounts—but if there was £1 million or £2 million going the other way, that would look better than transferring a huge chunk of money every year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and his officials for their evidence. We will publish a short report to the Parliament setting out our decision on the draft instrument in due course.

As that concludes the public part of the meeting, we will move into private session to consider the remaining agenda items.

12:00 Meeting continued in private until 12:15.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What parameters did you think were likely to come from the budget? I do not suppose that any minister thought that the figure would be specifically £1,433 million. Were you thinking of a figure between £1 billion and £2 billion, or between £500,000 and £2 billion?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

We know that there was a capital underspend of £130.4 million in the previous financial year, which has been carried over, so the spending power has not been lost. Where are we with regard to being on target for delivery of the full capital programme? Being unable to see how some projects are doing compared with others is frustrating.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I know that colleagues around the table have a lot of questions to ask—all six members have expressed an interest in asking questions.