Chamber and committees

I know what underlies the very real concern that Maggie Chapman has expressed: some of the high profile cases that we have seen, and not just in the Met—there have been challenges here in Scotland as well.

There are a number of ways in which that can be tackled. As the member knows, some of those are in the bills that we are bringing forward in the area, and we have mentioned Elish Angiolini’s recommendations. I am happy to provide the same information to Maggie Chapman that I said that I would provide to Rhoda Grant.

I talk regularly to senior officers, especially in the senior officer team, and I think that they are extremely committed to that. I mentioned in my statement that, along with cybercrime, violence against women and girls is growing. I mentioned that, this week, we have had another indication of a reduction in crimes, but that contains a small increase in violence against women and girls. The police are well seized of that and, given the comments of the chief constable and what I have said in my statement, violence against women and girls will be a huge priority for the police as we go forward.

On that issue and a number of issues raised in previous questions, such decisions are often for the police to take. Quite rightly, the Government has no operational control over the police—that is written into the legislation. It is for the police, in concert with the SPA, to take that forward.

However, as the member will know, “The Vision for Justice in Scotland” requires every part, agency and body within the justice system—if it can be called a system—to undertake trauma-informed training, because the response that people get has to be more than criminals being captured and the right verdict being delivered in a courtroom. It has to mean that the victims, witnesses and other people who are affected by crime or who interact with the justice system experience a trauma-informed approach. It is the case that, whatever we think of the issue, most people in prison have a trauma-related background—usually, adverse childhood experiences.

The commitment exists, but it is for the police to ensure that it is implemented throughout the force to the extent that it is not already being done in many parts of it.

I agree with Fulton MacGregor. If someone was to be objective and ask whether the Government values that service, the fact that we pay £5,000 more per year for a person starting in the police force would show that there is a level of priority attached to that in Scotland that is not seen elsewhere. I agree with that point.

We have more police per head of population than is the case in England and Wales. There are 30 officers per 10,000 of the population in Scotland—[Interruption.] I know that is difficult for the Conservatives to hear, but they will have to listen to it. We have 30 officers per 10,000 of the population in Scotland, compared to 24 officers per 10,000 of the population in England and Wales.

We have a tremendously well funded and well remunerated police force, although we would always like to pay more. The success of that is shown by the extent to which we now have fewer victims and fewer crimes, because of the effectiveness of our police force in Scotland.

It is not just about the money that is spent. I accept that point.

It would be unfair to recount specific details, but I have testimony from senior officers who served in the north of Scotland police forces in the past and who are hugely complimentary about the capacity that they now have because of the national police force.

Most recently, in Stuart McMillan’s constituency—I know that he has a question about this—we have seen that services can much more easily be brought to bear by a national police force, as it has the ability to direct them around the country, rather than what was the case with our old eight legacy forces.

Policing should of course reflect the community in which it is undertaken. The points that Beatrice Wishart has made will be taken on board and, I am sure, listened to by the police service, and I am happy to relay them to the police service in order that it can further improve that service.

The answer that I am about to give is informed by a number of lengthy conversations that I have had with the chief constable on some of the issues that Jamie Greene has just raised.

Policing is made more sustainable if, for example, we have the best-paid police officers in the UK and if we have more police officers in Scotland per head of population than elsewhere. At the Criminal Justice Committee, I have heard from Jamie Greene and other members that we were about to see a reduction in police numbers to below 14,000. The only way that would happen is if we tried to match the number of police officers per head of population that the Tories have in England and Wales. If we did that, we would be down more than 2,500 police officers—

As I said in my response to Katy Clark, there is more to do in that area. The national service already has detailed plans under way to enhance recruitment, leadership and training in order to develop a culture that reflects its values. I welcome initiatives such as the policing together strategy, which outlines a range of actions that Police Scotland is taking, under the leadership of Deputy Chief Constable Fiona Taylor, to mainstream equality, diversity and inclusion within the service and to attract, retain and promote a diverse workforce.

The more the police service in Scotland looks like the rest of Scotland, the more trust will be built up between the people of Scotland and the police force. I know that the police take that seriously. So does the Scottish Government, so we will continue ensuring that we have a more diverse and inclusive police force.

I know that Murdo Fraser has been in the Parliament a long time, but I am not sure whether he is sufficiently aware of the fact that the purchase of capital equipment and, in fact, any equipment is for the SPA and the police force—the chief constable himself—to undertake according to the priorities that they see.

I do not deny that I would like to see more body-worn cameras among the police, mainly because they can, in the end, reduce costs and crime. I fully support that, but it will be a question of resources and how the police and the SPA prioritise that spend. The fundamental point is that, if we start off with the priority of ensuring that police officers are well remunerated and well supported by having the right number of officers, we start from a good basis.

The SPA is currently considering body-worn cameras, and it will have our support in ensuring that as many officers as possible have the equipment as we move forward.

That is absolutely the case, as the member said. As he will appreciate, if we were to publish the data that we have, it would show a very substantial drop in the year after 2019-20, which saw the first of the lockdowns, for example. The data would probably show quite a dramatic reduction, but it would not be an accurate picture. There is more to it than that.

Furthermore, in order to give meaningful information, we have to do the investigation that I referred to, and we also have to make sure that the statistics provided meet a certain standard. They are gold standard. They are now accredited, vindicated and validated, and we want to make sure that that remains the case. There is no reason for not providing that information other than making sure that it is as accurate as possible, which is what we intend to do.

That is a really important question. As convener of the Criminal Justice Committee, Audrey Nicoll will know that the bill will help to reduce reoffending and future victimisation by ensuring that public safety and victim protection are at the heart of bail decision making and by improving support for people leaving prison custody.

The bill recognises the negative impact that short periods of imprisonment can have, particularly on those who have not been convicted of a crime, and the evidence that community-based interventions can be more effective at supporting rehabilitation. The bill supports the principle that those who do not pose a risk to public safety or, in certain circumstances, a risk to the delivery of justice should be admitted to bail.

The provision of effective support for people who leave prison reduces their risk of reoffending, which is something that we all want to see. That is why the bill includes reforms to improve pre-release planning and the support that is provided to individuals on release. The bill should be seen alongside our on-going investment in community-based alternatives to custody, as well as our continuing investment in third sector voluntary throughcare services across Scotland.

My thoughts are, first and foremost, with anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide in prison custody. Every death by suicide is a tragedy. We are committed to working with partners to implement the recommendations of the independent review of deaths in custody. Although the progress report in December recognised that some of the issues are complex and will take some time to resolve and implement, as the member suggests, greater pace is needed.

Following the publication of the progress report, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I jointly wrote to chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service and to all NHS Scotland chief executives and integration authority chief officers to request that greater priority be given to timely implementation of the recommendations.

Gillian Imery, the former chief inspector of constabulary for Scotland, will continue in her role as the external chair of the review into late 2023, providing support and leadership to implement the recommendations. A further update on progress will be published later this year.