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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

No. As I understand it, the material will be available to the committee later this afternoon. There is the answer to the question.

Daniel Johnson knows that I have a high regard for him, but I felt that his speech was awfully confused, particularly about the advisability of Zoom calls. Mr Johnson said that

“Carrying on regardless ... is not consultation”

but the Government is not carrying on regardless; the Government has listened and delayed the enforcement of the provisions. Indeed, on the radio this morning, Leon Thompson, the executive director of UKHospitality in Scotland said:

“it is certainly the right decision to delay enforcement. That’s something that we’ve been calling for”.

He also said:

“That’s certainly welcome news”

and

“This does alleviate some of the pressures and burdens on us which we have been highlighting over the last few weeks.”

I am pleased that Mr Thompson was able to put that on the record, because Mr Smyth does not have it in him to say anything decent about this particular issue.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

Mr Fraser must surely have looked at the material that the Government has published that gives the details about the scheme that will be brought into effect. It is completely and utterly unacceptable for Mr Fraser to indicate that none of that detail has been put into the public domain by the Government.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

The Government believes that these are the right measures to be taken to tackle the pandemic, and I look forward to members supporting our amendment at 5 o’clock tonight.

15:56  

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

Can Mr Fraser forgive me for a second? I want to develop the point that John Mason made: because of the nature of the pandemic and a virus that presents a significant threat to human health and wellbeing, decisions have had to be taken and implemented at pace, most of them an awful lot faster than this particular proposal. That pace is necessary because of the pandemic, but also because of its acute driver—the delta variant.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

Will Mr Cole-Hamilton let me develop my point?

At previous stages in the pandemic, 2,500 cases a day would have meant that vast sectors of our economy would have had to close to protect the public. With 1,000 or more hospitalisation cases, our national health service is wrestling with significant and acute strain in its operation.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

The member will forgive me, but a Government debate on the subject took place a couple of weeks ago. I was in front of the committee, which took evidence on the subject, and I will be in front of it again tomorrow, so a significant amount of parliamentary scrutiny is taking place.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

Both Liz Smith and Michelle Thomson highlighted the fundamentally difficult issue, with which the Government has wrestled for the past 18 months, of balancing the significant impact of the virus on public health with its impact on other aspects of the economic and social life of individuals in our country.

As members know, I have been at the centre of decision making on those difficult choices, and developed the four harms framework, on which basis we have exited lockdown over the course of the past 12 months. The issue of balancing public health questions with economic and social ones is incredibly difficult. Paul McLennan’s speech, therefore, was important; it reminded Parliament that there are on average 2,500 Covid cases a day now, and that more than 1,000 people are hospitalised due to Covid today.

Mitigating factors also exist, such as the fact that substantial levels of vaccination have been undertaken across the country, and I pay due credit to those who have executed the vaccination programme.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

If Mr Johnson were to look at the guidance that we have issued, he would see that we have taken a pragmatic approach to the way in which businesses will be expected to implement the regulations. We have set out the various steps that businesses will have to take to make sure that they are in a position to implement the regulations effectively.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

I will have to wind up my remarks, but Mr Smyth can keep persisting from his sedentary position. It is something of a specialty of his.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 Vaccination Certification Scheme

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

John Swinney

Mr Fraser seems to have the same amnesia as Mr Cole-Hamilton. The Government brought the issue to a debate a couple of weeks ago. Has he forgotten how badly he performed in that debate?