Chamber and committees

Yes.

The JCVI has decided not to recommend further booster vaccinations—which would be a fourth dose—for the over-80s, although it specifically considered that proposition. We await further advice from the JCVI about what might become the more routine approach to vaccination for future programmes. Obviously, that will depend significantly on the course of the pandemic, what we experience between now and then, and whether a new variant emerges.

I return to a point that I have rehearsed with the committee before. In late November, the Cabinet took a view on the Tuesday that the pandemic was quite benign, and, by the Thursday, we had omicron. Things can change very quickly, and we stand ready to deploy whatever is necessary to deliver on the vaccination advice that we receive from the JCVI. What reassures us is our solid experience of delivering a colossal vaccination programme with significant efficiency and effectiveness. That should give us confidence that we can pivot in order to take forward whatever the JCVI proposes.

The reason why we are taking time to gather evidence and consult is that we would rather put in place a strategic framework with significant longevity to give people confidence and certainty about how we intend to position ourselves to manage the pandemic. We think—we hope—that we have the opportunity to do that. Now that we are in a slightly becalmed situation, we can set out our assessment of the current situation, our view of what approaches might be necessary to manage the pandemic on an on-going basis, and the steps that we would need to take should we have to intensify any of our actions for dealing with the pandemic.

We therefore hope that the framework will have a longer perspective than we were perhaps able to give during the pandemic, when, of necessity, we had to change some of the foundations of our framework approach to reflect the fact that the course of the pandemic had changed significantly right in front of us.

It might be helpful if I place on the record some remarks about the various regulations.

Before the committee are motions to approve two emergency health protection instruments. The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2022 implement the second phase of the lifting of the omicron response measures, removing indoor capacity limits for live events as well as physical distancing and table service requirements, and allowing nightclubs to reopen. On the reopening of nightclubs, the regulations also make a small change to the definition of “late night premises” in relation to the certification requirements.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment (No 3) Regulations 2022 amend the face covering requirements so that, in the circumstances that are set out in the principal regulations in which a person is permitted not to wear a face covering because they are at least 2m away from other people, that distance is reduced to at least 1m.

Also before the committee is a motion on the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel and Operator Liability) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2022, which add the Dynamic New Athletics event to the list of specified competitions in the principal regulations. That indoor athletics event is due to take place on 5 February 2022 at the Emirates arena in Glasgow. The amendment is being made to allow international sportspeople and ancillary staff who are coming to Scotland to compete in the event to be eligible for the elite sportsperson exemption.

Finally, there are the regulations on the early expiry of provisions in paragraphs 18(1) and (3) of schedule 4 to the Coronavirus (Scotland) Act 2020. The provisions in question allowed the Parole Board for Scotland to make use of a live link for the entirety of parole proceedings during the Covid pandemic, rather than conducting face-to-face hearings. The Parole Board (Scotland) Amendment Rules 2022, which were laid on 24 January 2022, make equivalent permanent provision in the rules that will take effect from the point of expiry. That will avoid any gap in the Parole Board’s ability to conduct remote hearings and will future proof its proceedings in case there is a future pandemic or another reason why face-to-face hearings would not be advisable.

Motions moved,

That the COVID-19 Recovery Committee recommends that the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Regulations 2022 (SSI 2022/13) be approved.

That the COVID-19 Recovery Committee recommends that the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel and Operator Liability) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Regulations 2022 (SSI 2022/25) be approved.

That the COVID-19 Recovery Committee recommends that the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 3) Regulations 2022 (SSI 2022/29) be approved.—[John Swinney]

Motions agreed to.

Well, where do I start with that one? There were moments in my tenure as Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills when—believe you me—I would have loved to exercise more control over local authorities on their performance on education.

The scenario that Mr Rowley puts to me is that the Government should empower local authorities. The Government has no need to empower local authorities to do those things, because they have the statutory responsibility for the delivery of education and the maintenance of the education estate.

Some months ago, local authorities were invited by the Government to set out what steps they were taking to improve ventilation. All the responsibility and scope lies exclusively in the hands of local government. The Scottish Government has made resources available to local authorities to help them to fulfil their statutory obligations in maintaining the school estate and ensuring that good ventilation is available.

There is no centralised control on ventilation. There is guidance that is formulated having taken expert advice. That will be signed off by the Covid-19 education recovery group, which of course includes local authorities—they are heavily represented on that group and will be heavily involved in the formulation of the guidance. The education secretary has previously reported to the Parliament on the feedback that she has received from local authorities about the steps that they are taking in relation to the improvement of ventilation.

Mr Rowley also put to me the issue of face coverings in schools. There is a different set of circumstances in that regard. The school-age population, whom we are continuing to require to wear face coverings, is less vaccinated than the rest of the population, because of the timing of the advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation. Looking at the infection levels, we can clearly see a higher preponderance of omicron infection among younger people in general—that is a summary position, but it is generally the case—and in the absence of high enough levels of vaccination, because of the JCVI advice, we have judged it proportionate to maintain the wearing of face coverings in schools. Of course, the Government will review the issue regularly, but we consider such a move to be proportionate in protecting young people and staff in the school environment.

In formulating any guidance, the Government draws on evidence from a range of sources, considers that evidence and makes appropriate judgments. I know from chairing the education recovery group for a sustained period over the past few years that we engage significantly with local authorities on all aspects of the formulation of that guidance. Local authorities will be involved in the development of this thinking.

As I said in my earlier answer to Mr Rowley, the Government has sought from local authorities an assurance that they are taking all the necessary steps to configure their estate and ensure appropriate ventilation. That will vary from classroom to classroom and from school to school. I accept Mr Rowley’s point that, fundamentally, this issue has to be handled at local level, but that is exactly what the Government has done.

I would certainly be very much against that, as I do not think that it is fair work practice to lean on one’s employees, to use the terminology that Mr Whittle used—that is not the way to think about the world at all. Many business organisations now realise that it is possible to operate in a different fashion and to perhaps have a more productive working environment. Certainly, given some of the challenges that people face in relation to their travel time to work and all the rest of it, some of that time could be saved and could be put to more productive use. In essence, the best way to ensure that the correct approach is taken is by having dialogue between employers and employees.

We should certainly not be relaxed about it, and we should not resign ourselves to that being the case. That is why every possible attempt is being made to invite people to get the booster vaccination. For example, in the run-up to the turn of the year, the volume of messaging and communication to encourage people to come forward for the booster was colossal, and we made significant progress in that respect. We were within clipping distance of 80 per cent of the eligible population being reached by 31 December.

We are now deploying a range of other interventions, including writing directly to everybody who has been vaccinated with the first and second doses but has not yet had the booster dose to encourage them to get it and provide them with the means of doing so. Extensive walk-in facilities are still available all around the country, particularly in our cities, to make sure that people have ready access to opportunities of that type. A variety of steps have been taken in relation to communication and practical availability to make sure that people have access to vaccination, and that is not something that we should give up on.

I am grateful to the committee for the opportunity to discuss the recent developments and updates to Parliament on Covid-19.

As the First Minister set out on Tuesday, recent data continues to give grounds for optimism. The situation that we are now in is much less severe than we had anticipated—although it is important to note that case numbers remain high and that we have seen increases in some age groups.

The significant fall in cases during the first three weeks of January is now reflected in a fall in the number of people who are being admitted to hospital. Thankfully, the number of people with Covid in intensive care has also reduced. Those improving trends are a result of the booster vaccination programme, the proportionate measures that we introduced in December 2021 and the willingness of the public to adapt their behaviour. That has enabled us to remove virtually all the additional protective measures that were introduced in December.

We are continuing our cautious approach to lifting protective measures. This week, we issued guidance for employers on hybrid working, where that can be done safely. From 11 February, fully vaccinated travellers will no longer need to take a test on their arrival into Scotland.

This week, the Cabinet agreed to retain the wider baseline measures, including the Covid certification scheme, the collection of contact details in hospitality settings and the requirement to wear a face covering in many indoor places. We are also asking the public to continue to take lateral flow tests before mixing with people from other households and to ensure that they report their results online. Those measures are important while the national health service remains under acute pressure. The number of people in hospital with Covid is falling, but it is still double what it was just before Christmas.

The advisory sub-group on education and children’s issues met recently, refreshed guidance was published on Tuesday, and we will monitor the advice on face coverings in schools and early years settings. The group will consider the issue again at its meeting on 8 February.

Covid vaccinations have now started for five to 11-year-olds who are at the highest clinical risk and who are household contacts of someone who is immunosuppressed, in line with the most recent advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation. Flu vaccinations have now also resumed for higher-risk groups after being paused in December 2021.

As we look ahead to spring, we can continue to be optimistic, and evidence shows that we may be entering a calmer phase of the pandemic. The revised strategic framework will be published after the February recess, setting out in detail our approach to managing Covid more sustainably in future phases of the pandemic in which the virus will—we hope—become endemic.

I am happy to answer questions from the committee.

I would be surprised at that. I do not have the data in front of me but I will explore it and, if there is some that I can share with the committee, I will happily do so. The move to hybrid working is welcome and I know that civil servants will embrace it, as the leadership of the organisation has done in setting out what we expect of staff.