Chamber and committees

It did not sound like it, but it was meant to be.

However, you will understand where I am coming from.

We are sitting as a committee, and other committees in Parliament will hear about all sorts of issues to do with financial pressures. You are giving us concrete evidence of areas where no more money is required and the system is just undertaking improvements. I am pressing you on where else that can be done. When we consider the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, I suspect that I will come at it from the perspective of saying, “Why does this need to cost more? Why does this need to involve more resources?”

Thank you. Please see my line of questioning as encouraging.

I am interested in the part of my question that relates to our experience in society whereby crime is, comparatively speaking, now at a much lower level than it was. I am also interested in the implications of that and how consideration of such issues influences the size of the police estate. Points about police numbers have been raised this morning; I am interested in how that flows into your assessment of the degree of risk in society that has to be handled.

There is nothing from my entry in the register of members’ interests that I believe that I require to declare as relevant to the committee’s work. However, I must state that, as colleagues know, I served in the Scottish Government until March 2023 and participated in collective decision making on issues that will come before the committee during the current parliamentary term. In addition, for the period from July 2022 to March 2023, I personally took direct decisions on the Scottish budget, which is relevant to material that is before the committee today and is likely to be on other occasions.

My first question is directed to Lynn Brown and to the deputy chief constable. I am interested in the interaction between the Scottish Police Authority and Police Scotland on the design of the policing model and its sustainability, given the extraordinary pressures of inflation that public finances have been wrestling with. What role does the Scottish Police Authority take in scrutinising and challenging the plans and propositions of Police Scotland? Given the fiscal context in which we are all having to operate at the present moment, to what degree is the authority satisfied that Police Scotland is properly and fully considering the appropriate approaches to policing and, flowing from that—this is where the question is perhaps relevant to the deputy chief constable—the process that is undertaken by Police Scotland to assess its role and capacity? Although we are wrestling with extraordinarily high inflation at the moment, we are also experiencing some of the lowest crime levels in more than 40 years. Perhaps Lynn Brown could start on that point.

I congratulate my colleague Rona Mackay on securing this debate, which provides Parliament with the opportunity to reflect on the significant moment that has been reached with the establishment of the first bairns’ hoose in Scotland. Rona Mackay’s personal, undiluted enthusiasm for that has been demonstrated powerfully in the debate, and that point has been reflected in the contributions of colleagues across the parliamentary chamber.

This is a moment that has been reached due to the tenacity of many campaigners who have been determined to ensure that, when children face the most difficult of times, which they should never, ever have had to face, they can be supported effectively in being able to address that suffering.

The bairns’ hoose is being taken forward by a partnership that is led by Children 1st and which involves Victim Support Scotland, the University of Edinburgh and Children England. Crucial funding of £1.5 million has been provided by the People’s Postcode Lottery. In welcoming the participation of each partner, I hope that others will forgive me if I single out the exceptional contribution of Children 1st in ensuring that the milestone has been reached. From my ministerial experience, I vividly recall the energy and commitment given by Children 1st to generate interest in, and support for, the concept of a bairns’ hoose.

Modelled on the European barnahus model, the bairns’ hoose means that children and young people who experience abuse and violence will be able to get all the protection, care, justice and recovery support that they will need under one roof. The proposal will support children and young people in East Dunbartonshire, East Renfrewshire, Inverclyde and Renfrewshire.

Children 1st has been so tenacious in taking forward the idea for the simple reason that the proposal puts the child right at the heart of the approach. The model aims to avoid the current situation in which children often have to recount their experiences on a number of occasions, when it has been bad enough that they have had to experience the circumstances once. The aim of the model is to ensure that all the support that a child needs can be based around the child. It puts the child right at the centre of the process, and assures that the support is brought to the child rather than children having to join the dots of a compartmentalised, adult-designed justice system. How many constituents in that particular position have we all supported?

The way in which the project has developed sets out an important lesson for us about how reforms can and should take place in our society. Although the Scottish Government has been a very supportive party in this endeavour—I am delighted that it has been so supportive—the initiative has rested with the third sector, principally through the work of Children 1st. The need for reform has been identified and championed by the third sector. I hope that the Scottish Government and Scotland’s local authorities will recognise the absolute necessity of being open to this type of initiative, of creating the space to enable such ventures to thrive and, crucially—I say this quite bluntly—of not getting in the way of such reforms into the bargain. Space must be left for the third sector to use its initiative to find a route through some of the obstacles and barriers that inevitably crop up in engaging with the public sector. The bairns’ hoose is a spectacular example of that in practice, and I congratulate everyone who has played a part in making it happen.

I understand the significance of the points that Mr Cameron makes. Indeed, in my short last tenure as finance secretary, I responded to a significant request from the King’s theatre in Edinburgh for Government funding to complete its restoration programme, which I am delighted that we were able to take forward. However, does Mr Cameron not understand the irony of the contrast between the remarks that he makes about the constraints on the public finances and the approach to public expenditure that the Government that he supports in the United Kingdom has taken for the past 13 years? I know that he looks at the issues carefully, but does he not identify the irony of asking us to spend more money when he supports a United Kingdom Government that puts in place a fiscal framework that constrains the Scottish Government’s expenditure?

Will Mr Marra take an intervention?