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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 24 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

I am happy to wait.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

Thank you for that answer. Does the association acknowledge that the Scottish Parliament has the constitutional power to legislate on the issues that are in the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

Does the association believe in the rule of law?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

Surely there is an obligation on the legal profession in its entirety. The committee has heard evidence from the Faculty of Advocates that it has no right of discretion in the handling of cases. However, I am interested in what the stance that the association is taking will say to the wider audience in Scotland, and what it says about the legal profession—if the legal profession is not prepared to engage in what has been defined as the law of Scotland.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

But—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

That exchange rather says to me that the association is picking and choosing what it is engaging with. That is where I have a difficulty with the association’s position, because that relates directly to the rule of law.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

If the association believes in the rule of law, on what basis do your members have the right not to follow the rule of law?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

That rather matters to Parliament as well, and especially to those of us who believe in the rule of law.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

I do not follow the point that you have made in this argument. You have accepted that Parliament has the right to legislate in those areas. If that is the case, and if Parliament has decided that that is to be the structure of our criminal justice system, that is the definition of the law. I do not understand how members of the profession, who will do as you have done today and profess that they support the rule of law, can actually fulfil that and hold the position that you have set out, if the democratic institutions have decided that that is an appropriate step for us to take.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

John Swinney

The answer that you have just given is slightly different from the ones that you gave me. Rona Mackay put to you the nature of the proposition, and you said that it is your job to make laws work, but you told me that you will not do that if the bill is enacted by Parliament. That is quite a contradiction of what you said to me in your earlier answers.