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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

If we look at the performance of Scottish education today, we will see record levels of literacy and numeracy attainment at primary school level and improvements at secondary school level. There is a record-low attainment gap in literacy between the proportion of primary school pupils from the most and the least deprived areas who are achieving curriculum for excellence levels, and there are reductions in that gap at secondary level.

Last summer, we had the highest ever number of passes at national 5 and a record number of vocational and technical qualifications were achieved. In 2022-23, 95.9 per cent of school leavers were in a positive destination three months after the end of the school year—the highest level on record. If that is the consequence of my stewardship of education, I am pleased that we are making the progress that we are making.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

My back benchers are really quite happy with where we are nowadays, believe you me. I am very clear that my back benchers are happy about where we are these days.

Mr Sarwar raises the issues in the national health service of money, structure and workforce planning, so let us take each of those. On money, as I rehearsed with Mr Sarwar last week, the Government has allocated to the NHS the strongest settlement of any aspect of our public services, to such an extent that the NHS now occupies a greater proportion of the Scottish budget than when the Government came to office. Those are undeniable statistics.

We can allocate only the money that is at our disposal. We would have less money to allocate if we now followed the attitude of Mr Sarwar, who has changed his mind on tax. [Interruption.] I think that Mr Sarwar is saying to me that that is not true. I am sorry, but I have been listening carefully to Mr Sarwar and Mr Marra, and both of them have changed their stance on tax. They voted for the measures that the Government put in place in the first place to ask higher earners to pay slightly more in taxation than they would if they lived in the rest of the United Kingdom, but they have now reversed their position on that. That means that they cannot ask me for more money for the health service, because they would cut public expenditure and make less money available for the NHS.

On the question of the challenges in the public finances, I thought that Mr Sarwar would come here with a different script, because I thought that he would have listened carefully to what Wes Streeting said on the television on Sunday. Mr Streeting told it the way it is. He said:

“All roads do lead to Westminster because, even though this is devolved, decisions taken in Westminster have an effect on the NHS across the whole country.”

He was talking about Wales, and the same issues apply in Scotland—it is Westminster that is the problem in all of this.

Mr Sarwar said that every Scottish institution is weaker than it was when we came to office. I ask him to take a look at Scotland today—look at the strength in our universities and the strength in the public institutions of Scotland that are serving our country well. What he has said is insulting to public services in Scotland, and I will not entertain it.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

I have made it clear to the Parliament, in all that I have done over the past few weeks, that collaboration across the parliamentary chamber is essential for what lies ahead. In fact, it is not only essential but a necessity for a Government that does not have a majority. Let us be crystal clear: the Government has to change the way in which it interacts with the Parliament. That is a fact of life now.

As I have made clear, I will be very happy to engage with all parties to address the issues that our country faces. I am in politics to get things done. I want to ensure that Scotland is a better country as a consequence of the activities of the Government, and I am sure that Mr Cole-Hamilton shares that aspiration.

There are answers that I could give to the points that Mr Cole-Hamilton raised. On education standards, as I have said, the attainment gap is at its lowest level for primary school pupils, and attainment at primary level is higher than it has ever been. Progress is being made; we can all acknowledge that. However, I am certain that the Parliament will have more of an effect on the public if we are able to work together in common cause, and I commit to doing that.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

Perhaps the accusation does not have substance to it, and it might not make it into a letter in black and white.

We have passed on the consequentials that have been available from UK Governments to the health service in Scotland. If there is any apologising to be done, I think that Jackie Baillie should apologise for two things. First, when the Labour Executive was in power in this Parliament, it failed to spend £1.6 billion of public money. It left it in the Treasury and it incurred massive private finance initiative costs, which we are still having to pay in Scotland today.

Secondly, Jackie Baillie should apologise for the crippling burden that that PFI legacy is posing to the Scottish Government and to local authorities the length and breadth of our country.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

Ash Regan makes an important point, and I recognise the significance of free school meals. We have an extensive amount of free school meal provision in the education system and the Government is looking at the resources that are available to us to determine at what stage we will be able to pursue any expansion of that programme.

However, I have to say to Parliament—and I have been completely open about this point—that we face significant financial challenges because of the combination of austerity, Brexit and the effect of inflation on the financial resources that are available to us. We will consider all those issues as we formulate our budget proposals this year.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

As I said in my statement, the Government will set out its proposals, including the issues that Mr Lumsden raises with me, in the finalised energy strategy, which will be shared with Parliament in due course.

I want to engage constructively with the oil and gas sector. I was in Aberdeen on Friday and had healthy and constructive discussions with a range of stakeholders, many of whom are involved in oil and gas, and I welcome the contributions that were made. I will be discussing those issues in due course with Unite the union. I am keen to have that conversation and will do so at the earliest opportunity.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

I am glad that Emma Roddick referred to the development of the deepwater terminal in Stornoway. It is already fulfilling its original purpose of providing a safe berth for cruise vessels, which are bringing thousands of visitors into the Western Isles who would not previously have been able to access the area.

The terminal provides a welcome economic boost. I was discussing the project with Stornoway Port Authority on Friday when I was speaking about the economy. I was pleased to hear about the progress that is being made and to hear that the investment that was facilitated by the Scottish Government, and which the Scottish Government has made, is having such a strong and positive effect.

In addition, the Government has commitments to the regional growth deals, many of which affect the Highlands and Islands. We will take forward the islands programme, which has already distributed resources to a range of island communities. I hope that I will soon have the opportunity to travel to Scotland’s islands in order to make clear the importance that I attach to addressing the needs of every part of our country. I will do that as soon as the opportunity arises.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

I hope that I have made it clear to the Parliament that climate action represents one of the four key priorities that will drive this Government. I want to ensure that we take steps that will take people and businesses with us on that journey, because we must do that with people—we have to take people with us.

Before I came to the Parliament this afternoon, I met the First Minister’s environmental council—a group of experts who are providing advice and inputting into the Government’s thinking on net zero—and we discussed the very issues that Mr Harvie raised with me, such as the importance of effective and urgent action to tackle the climate crisis. Those discussions will be reflected in the plans that the Government will bring to the Parliament in due course, which will be in accordance with our targets and aspirations to achieve net zero in the timescale that we have set out.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

The economic context that Mr Gibson sets out is part of the reality that we must face up to. Austerity is undermining the resources that are available to us, including those for public services—hence the importance that I attach to growing the economy to improve and expand the tax base. Therefore, the convener of the Finance and Public Administration Committee makes substantial points in that respect.

On Monday, the Deputy First Minister announced a £5 million package of support for start-up companies. That takes forward the recommendations that were made by Mark Logan and Ana Stewart and builds on the investments that have been made in the Techscaler programme, which the Deputy First Minister and I saw in Barclays in Glasgow last Friday. Therefore, the support to ensure that we have a strong ecosystem that supports innovation is essential to encourage economic growth in our country.

Meeting of the Parliament

Priorities for Scotland

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

John Swinney

I understand exactly the point that Michelle Thomson puts to me. The Government has got to make a careful set of decisions about the use of the resources that we have available to us. We have earmarked the ScotWind resources for long-term investment in the economy, although, given the pressure on the public finances—I have been absolutely candid with Parliament today about the intensity of those pressures—we face difficult choices in ensuring that we can deliver the services and the policies that we wish to deliver within the financial resources that we have available to us, because of the persistence of austerity.

Some of that could change if there was a change of UK Government. Later today, a general election might be announced—who knows what on earth is coming?—and some degree of change might come about in that respect. Who knows? However, what I can say to Michelle Thomson is that the Government will give consideration to all those issues as we take forward the development of the medium-term fiscal strategy and then the annual budget, which will be presented to Parliament later this year.