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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

I will have to explore that particular point to determine whether that analysis has been undertaken. I understand the challenge that Christine Grahame has raised about the sharp rise in population in the Penicuik area, which is part of the particularly acute rise in population in general in the south-east of Scotland—particularly in West Lothian, Midlothian, East Lothian and the city of Edinburgh. That rise will place a strain on public infrastructure such as GP surgeries.

The issues relating to charges for premises and utilisation costs are a matter for negotiation between GP practices and health boards, but I will take away the specific point that Christine Grahame put to me in order to determine what analysis has been put in place to address the issue.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

While Evelyn Tweed was asking her question, the source of her information—the Nuffield Trust—was being criticised by members in this Parliament. It is important that we all recognise that the Nuffield Trust, which is the source of the information that Evelyn Tweed put on the record, is a much-respected health commentary organisation. The trust has indicated that the proposals in the Labour and Conservative manifestos would result in lower increases in health spending than those during the worst years of Conservative austerity.

That means that there has been a missed opportunity to address the very issues that Jackie Baillie and Anas Sarwar have put to me today. We have to ensure that we have a realistic debate about investment in the health service. This Government has taken the hard decisions to increase tax on higher earners so that we can invest more in the national health service. I wish that other people would follow the example that we have shown about investment in the health service.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

—in taking me to task about honesty.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

First, I express my sympathy to the family that is involved in this case—the Donaldson family. I am familiar with the case, given my representation of areas adjacent to those affected.

As Mr Kerr will know, the decisions that are taken by the Parole Board for Scotland are for the Parole Board and are independent of Government. He would not expect me to comment on the substance of them.

I accept Mr Kerr’s point that all aspects of our justice system must be trauma informed. Before my election as First Minister, I sat with colleagues on the Criminal Justice Committee hearing evidence about the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, which legislates in favour of trauma-informed practice in the justice system. I am very sympathetic to the importance of that point in every respect, and all aspects of the justice system must be trauma informed.

A range of measures are in place already. The bill prompts us to reconsider and review whether they are sufficient to address these challenges and questions. I give Mr Kerr the commitment that the Government will do that as we explore the bill’s provisions during its passage and determine whether any additional provisions are required to address the legitimate point that he puts to me.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

As Mr Sarwar will know, the issues and challenges in the national health service today are driven by a number of factors. One of them is the increase in demand in the aftermath of Covid, which the national health service is doing its level best to try to address.

We are wrestling also with the challenges of our hospitals being significantly congested because of the challenges around delayed discharge. Those challenges come largely from the fact that we do not have enough social care packages available in the community, because we do not have enough people in the workforce to deliver the volume of social care that is required. That is a consequence of the loss of population because of the loss of free movement under Brexit. The issues that we are wrestling with are significant and acute, and the Government and our health boards are focused on addressing that.

Finally, I say to Mr Sarwar that, if anybody is treated in the fashion that he has recounted and if anybody has that experience—I have seen media reports this morning of a particular case at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital—I apologise unreservedly to them, and I assure members of the public and their families that the Government is doing all that it can to address that circumstance.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

In my earlier answer, I set out some of the issues that are driving that particular situation and I will repeat them: the increase in demand after Covid; the congestion in our hospitals, which now have in excess of 95 per cent occupancy, which is far too high and should be about 10 per cent lower for ordinary activity; and the absence of adequate social care capacity in the community, because we do not have enough social care workers to deliver social care packages. That is the explanation of the problem.

Mr Sarwar says that he comes here week after week to raise these issues. I know that he does, and he gets these answers, but what is required is that we take action. This Government has taken the action of increasing tax on higher earners in order to boost investment in the national health service. The national health service would have had less money available to it if this Government had not taken the hard decisions on tax.

The general election gives us an opportunity to do something about this. We could encourage more people into the labour force, which would require us to reintroduce freedom of movement, so that people can come to work in this country, or encourage more investment and take more investment decisions, such as ending austerity. However, Mr Sarwar’s party is proposing no answer to these issues. In fact, it is proposing the reverse by saying that it will maintain Brexit and austerity. That is not good enough—it is time for the Labour Party to act.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

Oh, so Mr Ross—

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

I suspect that one of the reasons why Douglas Ross is leaving the leadership of the Conservative Party is that he is not presenting an accurate picture of the remarks that I have made. [Interruption.]

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

I do not think that Douglas Ross is in a particularly strong position today to raise issues of honesty with me, when the Gambling Commission is investigating the alleged conduct of senior figures in the Conservative and Unionist Party. I think that Douglas Ross is on thin ground.

I also do not think that—

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

John Swinney

My answer to that nurse is that we must have an end to austerity, and she will not get that from the Labour Government.