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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
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Displaying 4236 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

It might be helpful for the committee’s inquiry if we could actually hear why we have not proven as a verdict.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

That answer is very helpful, in a sense, as it adds to the committee’s consideration of what we must think about—and this goes back to my earlier questions—with regard to the relationship between jury size, majority versus supermajority and the potential abolition of the not proven verdict. That answer—and the lack of absolute certainty about why we are where we are—is part of establishing the proper relationship between those three factors.

If we went to a unanimity position, that would strike me as a really significant move in Scottish jury approaches, and it would require a very significant raising of the bar for potential conviction, which must of course be substantiated. Going back to your earlier point, Mr Keane, there must be public confidence in the criminal justice system, and we must be careful that we do not place the bar too high up.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

I am interested in hearing your views on an issue that I have raised with you this morning. In trying to strike the appropriate balance, and given the possible implications of the changes, should we also consider revisiting the approach to—or the threshold for—involving the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission in possible miscarriages of justice? Should that be considered in our pursuit of the right balance?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

That is an incredibly helpful and illuminating answer. I will press you on one last point about the question of magnitude, in order to make sure that I have correctly understood what you said about the data point of 3 to 37 per cent. Is that the scale of magnitude of difference that can prevail, given all the potential permutations that you have set out? It is quite a wide variation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Do you agree that it would not be wise for the committee to ignore the fact that there is the potential in the relationship of that triumvirate to create a set of circumstances that might lead to quite a large variance of between 3 and 37 per cent?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Thank you. That is tremendously helpful information.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Mr Keane, you tiptoed into this area earlier, so I agree that it is probably a question for you. For completeness, we could do with an understanding of how we got here.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Thank you very much for that. In no way do I regret asking the question, because it is important that we have an understanding of the context in which the verdict emerged. Would it be fair to say that the historical development of the position in which we find ourselves has fuelled a lack of clarity in juries’ decision making?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

I will follow up on Pauline McNeill’s line of questioning by asking about the impact of the recent decision of the High Court of Justiciary, sitting as an appeal court, on aspects of corroboration in sexual offence cases. Do you consider that that affects the balance that I am interested in?