Chamber and committees

So there are two issues.

That is really helpful. You have clarified that extremely well.

The other issue is supervision orders. Will you expand on that? You made only a short reference to that, so I am not sure how significant it is. I had a quick look at the definition of supervision orders, and they seem largely to be part of the criminal sentencing world rather than the social work and care world, if you see what I mean. I am not an expert in this area and I was a bit puzzled, because supervision orders seem to be issued by children’s hearings. There is provision for supervision orders to be made in respect of adults as well, but that is very much in the context of sentencing.

We should keep the petition open. Quite obviously, these are very important matters to the petitioners and to people in this part of Scotland. I represent the Highlands and have been known to mention other roads—

We should encourage the current First Minister to meet Callum Isted—although perhaps not in Bute house, given what you have said, convener. I am sure that the First Minister would like to do that.

We should also seek from the minister an assurance that she will request information from each local authority on water provision in schools. Specifically, we should seek some detail on the methods of provision and how sustainability requirements are met.

In addition, it occurred to me that it would be remiss of us if, in our letter to the minister, we did not specifically invite her to refer to and describe her response to Callum’s petition and if we did not ask local authorities, first, whether they would wish to be part of a national procurement scheme that could implement the petition and, secondly, whether that would be more efficacious in providing a reliable and continuously available supply of water to children. The minister said that the provision of water is up to schools, and they do that in different ways—for example, through water fountains. Often, however, such things do not work or are not available when somebody wants a drink of water.

Everybody knows that it is handy to have a bottle of water. You can take it everywhere with you and keep hydrated all the time. Hydration is important for children, but most of them do not really realise that. That might be a patronising remark, but there is a risk that they do not appreciate how important it is to be hydrated in order to be alert and able to concentrate.

There is a big difference between a water fountain that might be available for several hundred kids—

I think that I am correct in saying—I have just looked, but I could not find the relevant part of the oral evidence—that there is a lack of clarity about the legal responsibility for ensuring the safety of people who visit cemeteries and for dealing with the risk of headstones falling over. If there is such a lack, I think that we could invite the Scottish Government to indicate whether it believes that it should provide clarity by allocating specific legal responsibility for safety in cemeteries, quite possibly to local authorities, as they would appear to be the only public bodies that could be endowed with or given that responsibility.

If there is some lack of clarity, in the event of any further ghastly incident or accident, the victim or their family could be left in the virtually legally impossible situation of having no clarity and no redress against anyone. Therefore, I think that it behoves the committee at least to ask the Scottish Government to consider whether that could be done and, if not, why not.

In a modern, civilised society, there needs to be clarity on such matters. Of course, property owners have very clear responsibilities in law, but if you do not know who the property owner is, you face a very difficult task indeed. Fortunately, we are talking about something that probably happens only rarely, but we should at least ask about the issue, as the Scottish Government could provide clarification.

There are those who are under 16 who are cut out of the system, and there are those who need care after they are 26, which is an arbitrary age.

Do you mean that the system does not have the powers in law?

Indeed.

We should encourage the minister to set out in a letter Callum Isted’s proposal as a potential option. The question is whether local authorities would like that to be done and whether they would like the Scottish Government to take on the responsibility of looking into procurement. As I pointed out to the minister, somewhat in vain, if a national procurement scheme is better able to get the best price possible in such an exercise and can do so in a way that improves provision, we owe it to Callum—as does the minister—to ensure that that is done.

I must apologise for being unable to come last night, but I am so pleased that my colleagues were able to be there.

I want to pursue some points that Laura Pasternak made in response to earlier questions about what she would like to see the committee do or recommend being done.

Laura, you said that legislation may require to be changed and you referred to supervision orders. Will you expand on that? Obviously, we want to try to help to identify precisely what needs to be done in terms of changes to both the law and practice. I appreciate that care is, by its nature, a general, nebulous concept that can involve all sorts of things. We have heard that it can involve access to finance, housing, arranging things, physical care and mental health provision. It covers a wide spectrum, which makes it quite difficult to have clarity, but we need clarity in order to be of whatever help we can be in recommending that necessary changes are made.

I suppose I have two questions. First, will you expand on the legislative change that you believe is required? Is it a matter of definitions? I think that, to some extent, what is set out in the Promise aims to avoid cliff edges and to remove anomalies resulting from certain care ending abruptly at the age of 21 or 26. Is that the definition that you want changed? Secondly, will you expand on what you believe should be done in relation to supervision orders?

I am sorry to be long winded. I used to be a lawyer, and in that work you get paid by the word. [Laughter.] It is hard to kick the habit. However, we are here to help and we want to get as much clarity as we can.

I would always encourage the minister to be as green as possible, convener.