I want to follow up on that point. RSPB Scotland made a point about uncertainty in its evidence, and about the fact that although ministers have given reassurances about the devolution settlement in various pieces of UK legislation, there is the chilling effect that you just talked about.

How can we have certainty? I will go to Isobel Mercer first. Reassurances have been given in the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill and in the Environment Act 2021. However, if those are just words, what will be the legal impact, given the uncertainty and bodies not being prepared to push the envelope because they are worried about legal status?

But if all that is going to be implemented on the ground, what will be the reality check?

Today, we are again debating the fallout of Brexit, which is a situation entirely of the Tory Government’s own making. I think that we are now on our third Tory Prime Minister seeking to find some sort of benefit from the mess. However, that is achieving only increasing uncertainty for workers and businesses.

At the outset of the debate, I want to put on record my frustration that we have this Scottish Government debate in front of us. The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill absolutely should be debated by MSPs and the Parliament, but Donald Cameron’s points about our Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee being in the middle of an inquiry on the bill were very well made. Work on it is also been done by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee.

I certainly agree that the bill undermines devolution and our capacity to hold our Governments to account. It is based on the assumption that it will be all right on the night, but Tory ministers fundamentally misunderstood and underplayed the risks that it creates. It was initially thought that there would be 2,500 pieces of legislation to be considered, but it turns out that there are more than 4,000, and we know that they are not all on the dashboard that is meant to enable people to monitor the process.

I am disappointed that we are having this debate today, because doing so shows disrespect to the committees and the Parliament by not waiting for the committees to consider the evidence that has been submitted and then to report formally. I hope that we will still get engagement from Scottish Government ministers and the UK Government and that they will come to the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, because it is fundamental that legislatures hold ministers to account. The work that is done by members of that committee across parties means that it will not just be about party politics, as Donald Cameron put it—we all have to do our jobs as individual committee members as well. We need to do heavy lifting on the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill in particular, because a huge amount of scrutiny is required.

I am glad that the Minister for Parliamentary Business has joined us. We do not want a token short debate in the Parliament; we need a proper debate. The irony of the Scottish Government treating our Parliament with disrespect in a debate about the disrespect shown by the Tory Government is glorious. The scrutiny of parliamentarians in holding ministers to account is absolutely vital. Taking evidence from key stakeholders is not just about getting newspaper headlines; it is fundamental to our work as MSPs.

I hope that the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee will continue with its inquiry. The evidence thus far is on the record, and it has been powerful.

Let us look at the bill. It was introduced by Jacob Rees-Mogg, who was then a minister in Liz Truss’s appalling and thankfully short-lived Government. It was not dumped as the Liz Truss-Kwasi Kwarteng budget was dumped, even though it will also damage businesses and hard-fought-for workers’ rights. The cabinet secretary’s comments about the failures of the bill in relation to its impact assessment were well made. It is not just the headlines that are wrong; the detail is totally wrong. I call on the Tory Government to reflect on the range of objections that have already been put forward at the UK level and the well-argued alternatives to that damaging approach, because protections and safety are being put on a cliff edge.

The bill will put in place a sunset clause so that all retained EU law will be automatically removed from the statute book by December 2023, which is a year from now. That means that current laws on environmental protections and workers’ rights would be scrapped with no scrutiny. The supremacy of the Court of Justice of the European Union and related EU case law in UK courts would be removed, which could threaten rights that are enshrined through EU case law, such as on equal pay.

The bill also confers Henry VIII powers on UK and Scottish ministers. I would be grateful if, in his closing speech, the cabinet secretary would rule out using those archaic and undemocratic powers from the 16th century. It would not be possible to make some of this up. It would be bad news for our health and environmental standards and would create uncertainty and increased challenges for our businesses, which are already struggling with building Covid recovery and are now dealing with the cost of living crisis initiated by the Liz Truss Tory Government.

Labour wants the Tory Government to dump the bill not because we automatically agree with every piece of law that we adopted in our 47 years in the EU but because the bill has not been thought through and means that the UK Government and our own Government in Scotland have to consider literally thousands of pieces of legislation. In Scotland, we need to consider the devolved areas and think through those that are not devolved but could still have an impact. It will create massive uncertainty.

There is a real danger that we will lose good laws and that the impact of that will be felt when food standards drop and animal welfare is undermined. It would surely be far better to consider which EU laws we would rather not have, consult properly so that stakeholders are able to get involved, carry out risk assessments, ask lawyers about the legal implications, speak to producers and businesses, and discuss with campaigners not only the laws that need to be retained but whether we want to go further to tackle the global climate crisis and accelerate the pace of change.

One piece of legislation that I well remember from my days as a transport minister was the impact of state aid on CalMac Ferries. I had to build cross-party support among MEPs and lobby European officials to argue that our rural and island communities needed state investment and state ferries for their existence. We won the argument but it required a huge amount of compromise and reordering how CalMac worked, which led to the creation of Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd. To ensure that the EU was happy with the solution that we developed took a huge amount of civil service work and political effort.

Let us think about the opportunities that we could deliver by not being bound to EU-defined state aid. However, we do not need to drop thousands of other valuable pieces of legislation. Consumer protection and animal welfare standards are vital to ensuring public health and avoiding the spread of dangerous diseases. Surely we need to think about that as we build Covid recovery. We need clear standards and certainty that they are being followed so that, regardless of where crops are grown, food is made or animals are brought up, the products are packaged, labelled and transported in ways that ensure consumer safety and animal welfare and safety.

We do not need a race to the bottom. We need consistency, transparency and—crucially—legal certainty for our businesses. We also need workers’ rights and protections to be upheld. A race to the bottom is the last thing that people need as we try to rebuild from Covid and address the cost of living crisis.

The bill also impacts on parliamentary accountability and undermines devolution. It would see legislation that is devolved to our Scottish Parliament potentially dumped without proper consultation, without stakeholders being able to make representations and without us as elected representatives being able to hold the Scottish Government to account. The Government is already struggling to communicate effectively which elements of EU law it intends to retain and why, never mind telling us which it does not intend to keep. The bill creates a massive workload at a time when surely we should be focusing on Covid recovery and the cost of living crisis.

I have already mentioned the concept of Henry VIII powers, which come from a king from the 1500s. They would give UK and Scottish ministers powers to approve legislation without scrutiny, which would be laughable if it were not going to happen. We need strong parliamentary scrutiny in Wales and the UK Parliament, and from our own CEEAC and DPLR Committees.

I look forward to the CEEAC Committee reporting back to Parliament. I realise that it will be a challenge for some members of the committee, given the debate but, as I said, as committee members, we have a job to do: to do the heavy lifting, look at the details and listen to the range of witnesses who are lined up to come and speak to us. The debate is about us making political statements and having a political debate, but we need to do the heavy lifting because it is critical that the damage that the bill could cause to our country is not realised.

I want to comment on Willie Rennie’s amendment. Clearly, much more could be done to build stronger relationships with our European neighbours. We also need to have a better understanding of the impact of European law and its interaction with our human safety and animal safety needs, and of the needs of Scottish businesses. In addition, we need to have a grown-up approach to cross-border work.

I draw members’ attention to the work that we in Scottish Labour did in the summer, which would help create the transformation that would address those issues that urgently need to be seen to across the UK. There needs to be more joint work where we share interests, such as through the common frameworks, to deliver for our constituents; the House of Lords needs to be replaced by a senate of the nations and regions, which Keir Starmer supported last week; and, crucially, we need Governments to respect our elected Parliaments.

We need there to be joint working, so that the UK operates as a union of equal nations with a duty to co-operate, so that, with the energy transition for example, we learn lessons from across the UK. Crucially, there must be respect and support for our local councils, too. It is not just at the parliamentary level that we must see accountability; we must also see local accountability.

The UK Tory Government needs to listen to the concerns of businesses and to acknowledge the fear of economic uncertainty that it is creating for producers. That Government is putting at huge risk hard-fought workers’ rights, which are critical for job retention and fairness. The environmental standards that we have can no longer simply be taken for granted. A huge amount of work will be needed. Public health is a critical issue, too, and it is certainly one of the issues that we in the committee will need to look at. Those risks are not acceptable.

We need parliamentary accountability and we need to scrutinise the legislation. A huge amount is being put at risk by the legislation. As parliamentarians—in the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the Scottish Parliament, the Senedd, and in all those Parliaments’ committees—we need to ensure that, in all the work that we do, we scrutinise the bill and put in the heavy lifting.

Potentially, at the stroke of midnight, we will lose legislation that it took years to create following lots of consultation and negotiation, and by listening to our representatives, members of the public and businesses. Given what our country has gone through with Covid, it is unthinkable that the bill will undermine our recovery from the pandemic. We need the bill to be dumped.

I hope that my amendment strengthens the Scottish Government’s motion, and I am glad that the Government will accept it. Let us work together, let us not forget the importance of our committee work and let us look forward to carrying out the heavy lifting that the Parliament needs to undertake. If the UK Tory Government could remove the bill, that would let us concentrate on the day job, which is what we really need to do.

I move amendment S6M-06984.2, to insert at end:

“; believes that there are clear opportunities available to each of the UK and Scottish governments to build stronger relationships with European neighbours, and considers that both governments should be compelled to cooperate and agree where their work overlaps, backed by common frameworks and a new dispute resolution process so that differences can be resolved maturely between administrations, to share power and to deliver better governance across the whole of the UK in accordance with the principles of federalism.”

It would be helpful to know what changes to the bill the cabinet secretary is suggesting so that we can get proper transparency from the Scottish Government and of course from the UK Government.

Will you tell us where in the motion, as amended by our amendment, it says that we are staying in the European Union? This is about retained EU law, so there is a bit of a distinction.

If the member had a look at the discussions that we have had, both in Scotland and at the UK level, he would see that it is clear that we are saying that the bill needs to go. There is an opportunity for us. Keir Starmer is talking about reflecting the will of the people, but that does not mean that we have to support the bill. We are pushing the Tories to dump it because it is so damaging.

I was hoping to bring in Sarah Millar, who talked about possible confusion, given the sheer range of legislative change. I note that you also highlighted food safety, Sarah. Can you comment on that?

From reading your submissions and listening to you today, it is clear that 2023 would be a massive cliff edge and that 2026 would still be a cliff edge, because it is not that far off.

What do the witnesses think about taking the opposite approach, which I think one of you mentioned, whereby, instead of dumping everything, we keep everything and then decide what we want to get rid of for flexibility? That would be a much more prioritised and much less risky approach, which would give you the opportunity to seek opportunities rather than taking the risk of putting environmental health, human health or animal health at risk as a result of huge uncertainty.

Do other witnesses want to come in? Donna Fordyce talked about a cliff edge with losing the sunset clauses.

That is a very important caveat. Reflecting on the evidence about the sheer scale of the number of pieces of legislation that there are to review, that would let stakeholders and advisers prioritise where they want to take the opportunity, rather than face the panic that people will clearly face very shortly.