Chamber and committees

I thank the witnesses for those answers. I am clear that that discussion is one that we need to have, but that there are a lot of things that we need to work out—namely, the transitions and flexibility. I note that, up to the age of 19, the services have some flexibility. It is helpful to know that, in Polmont, you have some flexibility beyond the age of 21.

On that point, when you look at serious offences such as murder, culpable homicide and so on, are you thinking that perhaps there should be a separate element of secure accommodation estate? I am thinking about seriousness of offence and the age of the offender being between 18 and 25 and how the answer might lie in reorganising the secure accommodation estate. Might that work?

Good morning. I want to explore this area of policy—Linda Allan, you have said that we should go further—and whether, if we were to explore it further, we are actually equipped to do it. Like Jamie Greene, I am trying to get my head around all this. Kate Wallace, earlier, you spoke about what your concerns would be, and you focused on the need for a risk assessment for secure accommodation. Does it all fit together in policy terms? In my limited understanding, for a start, we do not have enough secure accommodation, so that is a question that we will have to address to ministers. However, the principle of the welfare of the child is the overriding principle of the children’s hearing system. Therefore, regardless of any offences, we must look after the welfare of the child.

If we go beyond the age of 18, we need to explore how that would operate, because between the ages of 18 and 21, people are not children. Therefore, if we were to put them in secure accommodation, it seems to me that the pieces do not all fit together. As you were speaking, I was wondering whether, if we are serious about that, a bit of a redesign is needed.

I am reading through the briefing, which says that we are not going to hold under-18s in Polmont any longer, and we might go beyond that. There are also references to remand and how that can either be in secure accommodation or in a “place of safety” although I really do not know what that means. It just feels as though the policy does not really fit and there is going to have to be a wholesale change to the system.

My own view is that I do not think that a risk assessment of someone who committed a serious offence would be enough to satisfy victims or their families that simply putting everyone together in secure accommodation is a solution. If you want to respond in any way to that, I would be grateful.

Gerald Michie, do you want to come in?

Therefore, is it your position that you are content with the bill as it stands? You would not go beyond the age of 18, which is what I am—

Good morning, minister. People on the earlier panel, who were really excellent, were trying to pinpoint priorities for what needs to be fixed and where the gaps are. A couple of things came out of that discussion: first, an issue exists about recruitment and the funding of posts—some of the posts are temporary, so staff are not applying for posts that need filled; and, secondly, the whole funding process seems so bureaucratic that it seems to me that simplifying it might be an important step. What do you think about those two points?

I will follow that up with a specific question. What progress has been made on expanding residential services? I know that that is only one part of the picture, but it is an important part. Has there been an expansion of services? Can you tell us now, or will you be able to tell us later, what exactly that amounts to?

Thank you for your presentation, which was really informative.

Reading through all the information that we have been given, we can see that the plan and law reform are needed and that we have additional Government funding of £50 million a year. How wisely is that money being spent or being planned to be spent?

There are a lot of priorities. One of the key points for me is that men are by far the biggest cohort of people who are losing their lives. Is the money being directed in the right way? Can we see where it is being spent? Are you, as the experts in the field, clear that the £50 million is being spent in the right places?

I feel that the committee needs help in drilling down into that. Karen Reynolds talked about where the money would best be spent. Justina Murray said that there is not a shortage of money. Can you help the committee with that? From what people are saying, there does not seem to be a clear picture of where the money should be spent to get the results that you want.

Lots of pleas have been made about the importance of residential rehabilitation and connected services. Is that an important starting point to fix this? As a legislator and a committee member, I am struggling to understand what it is that you want to say to me about that. Where should we push Angela Constance to get results with the money that you say is available?

It is for Karen Reynolds and Justina Murray, if that is okay.