The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1602 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
So, you were not aware that women’s groups were not consulted? I am not trying to give you a trick question.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
I do, in a minute. I am really just trying to get some clarity. That is all that I am trying to do.
In balancing the rights of everyone—and I note what you have said about the importance of balancing the rights of trans people—would you agree that Rhona Hotchkiss is not talking about the possibility that women might be at risk, but that she is saying that the privacy and dignity of women in prisons are also important?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
Can you be clear with me?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
I am sorry, but that does not make any sense. If that was one factor, would it be fair to say that the decision maker could, under the policy, have said, “Okay. I have looked at that. This person has self-identified as a woman. I’m going to segregate the person in Barlinnie until we decide where the person is going to go”? Could that have been a decision or not?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
They checked that with headquarters.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
You are talking about hindsight.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
This is—I hope—a straightforward question. It follows on from Katy Clark’s question about who made the decision and all that. I am not trying to get you to say who made it, but I did not understand something.
There is a segregated unit in Barlinnie for sex offenders; I have actually been to the cells for individual solitary confinement. Why did the decision maker not just hold the prisoner in the segregated unit in the estate for assessment? That is a really important question, to answer now or to come back to the committee on at some point.
Is the problem that the 2014 policy is a self-ID policy, so you did not have a choice? It is really important to get to the bottom of that. If we want to move on from this, and if there are genuine lessons to be learned, we need to know why.
This seems like an obvious and sensible question that any member of the public would ask. Why did the prisoner need to go to Cornton Vale to be assessed and segregated? We have heard that there was no risk to women, but they could have been segregated somewhere else. I have a clear question. Why did the decision maker not hold Isla Bryson in another part of the male estate until a decision was made—albeit that I might not have liked the decision?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
The decision maker chose not to do that.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
Do you know why?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 22 February 2023
Pauline McNeill
I am sorry, but I am not accepting that. You have already told the committee that the decision was signed off by headquarters, so nobody second guessed. Which is it? In evidence to the committee, you said that the decision was signed off by headquarters. Am I right?