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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1760 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

No, that is not what I am saying. It has to be judged at the point in time when the work that has been carried out has been assessed and the procurement process has gone through.

Again, this is about looking back to something that took place a significant time ago. The changes that have taken place since then to improve procurement processes—prior even to the recommendations of the REC Committee and to your own recommendations—also mean that the process of decision making on investment is different. It is difficult to view something retrospectively through the lens as to what is appropriate that we as a Government currently have .

What I am saying is that, looking back, the types of processes that we have now should have been in place at that point—but, obviously, they were not. We have learned from that and have improved those processes. We have been open about that.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

Evidence about that was responded to by the Government and by the witnesses that you had at the time. In our response in May, we also said that it is important to keep minutes and records of all meetings. That is what happens—as is appropriate.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

Well, as you know, an official was there.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

At any point in time, there is a question about whether the Government should stop funding something. Decisions will be taken across the piece, and sometimes the decision will be taken not to continue with something. All that I am saying is that the cabinet secretary, Neil Gray, made the position quite clear—he came straight to Parliament to report that forthrightly and openly, which is what Governments should do around such major decisions. There might be instances in which the answer is to do the reverse, which could happen in any ministry or portfolio at any time, so it depends on the circumstances at the time.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

The issue is about what is in the public interest. Is it in the public interest to ensure that vessels are completed for the islanders? As transport minister, I have spoken to island communities and I want all six vessels to be completed, because we need that resilience—that is the risk element that we have just now. The issue is also about the yard and the capacity for shipbuilding jobs in the future. There is the question, too, of how we ensure that the yard can be successful, which is obviously Neil Gray’s responsibility. In this instance, there are many different aspects to decision making around spend.

The safety approvals for the two vessels are progressing well, and that will be reported to the NZET Committee by the end of the month, in the next update. I understand that, once we have got through that process, the vessels will then go to sea trials. Then we will start on the launch of 801, which will be a great relief to the islanders. My job, as minister for transport, is to support island communities to receive their vessels.

You can make a judgment—and all MSPs will make a judgment—about our saying yes or no, but the cabinet secretary for the economy, Neil Gray, clearly set out how important it was that 802 in particular—which is obviously a challenge—should progress and be delivered.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

I do not think that I have said that. I have been at pains to say that part of the response has been improvements in record keeping. I am clear about that. There have been recommendations from the new permanent secretary about how decisions should be made and how things are recorded. I have observed that improvement in minute taking in the recent weeks after coming back into government.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

Chris Wilcock, are you happy to answer that?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

There is quite a lot to that, because there is a difference between ministerial direction, shareholder authorisation and a letter of comfort. A letter of comfort is what was provided. In the interests of time, I am happy to give a written explanation of what that was and what the committee is asking for.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

Yes. I will not—I cannot—give you that answer.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Fiona Hyslop

I will ask Transport Scotland to review that, but, having looked again and read this committee’s report and the REC Committee report, I think that information was shared. Have improvements been made? Yes. However, I think that you wanted to direct your question to Transport Scotland.