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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 May 2025
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Displaying 1524 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

There is much to do. I have met Louise Haigh. I would like to thank again the parliamentary authorities, the committee and the committee clerks for their co-operation on the LCM, because, obviously, we had to do this at pace during the summer, because Parliament was in recess, and I did not want us to be left out of it, which could have happened. I am very appreciative of my officials and of the UK Government officials. I am working with the minister to align things because something happened when our parliamentary terms did not align. That has been good co-operation.

I have not yet met Sir Peter Hendy, the new UK Minister for Rail, although I did meet him when he was in his previous position as chair of Network Rail. I hope and intend to meet him.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

It will be an open procurement, to ensure that we have value for money and deliver what we need in terms of passengers, track and train. As you might appreciate, I do not want to comment on any individual company.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

Any replacement will need to ensure that it supports a greener fleet. That is one of the clear points that I want to make. However, it will be an open procurement, so I cannot give a figure until the procurement is concluded. I hope that you can appreciate that. A reduction is my commitment, but I cannot say by how much, because the procurement is only just starting.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

The impact is still to be assessed. I see that it is operating and I have no difficulty with it, but it is not the main issue that we are dealing with just now.

My first answer was clear that where there are opportunities in terms of track access, open access has worked. It has, in many cases, replaced services that have been withdrawn, but it is a different operating model, a different pricing model and has a different position. The UK Government can do that for particular reasons. It is not an area that I have had discussions with the UK Government about, so I am just saying that the jury is out on it, but the way that it has operated to date has helped to use existing track availability.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

The other thing to let the committee know is that we obviously have the new climate change plan, which the committee will consider. As I have told you before, we will have to refresh the decarbonisation plan, which we will do, and it will come shortly after the climate change plan because we have to align it with that.

In terms of where we are now, I cannot get into the detail of carriages yet. If there is anything that I can follow up on about where that sits within the 2022 commitment, I will be happy to do so. It sits in our wider plans for Scottish rail. As I said, we are already taking action. Barrhead is electrified and work on East Kilbride is commencing, which will have an interchange and so on. Obviously, there are challenges elsewhere.

Seventy-five per cent of passenger journeys are currently on electric trains, which is good. However, you were talking about numbers of trains. Again, there is an interplay. Since public ownership, there has been a 7 per cent increase in the number of passenger seats. When it comes to 200 journeys operating to full timetable, we acknowledge that we are not currently doing that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Meeting date: 3 September 2024

Fiona Hyslop

I undertake to ensure that the point is made to the UK ministers and that they are asked whether they can identify how the costs will be met.

On the more substantive point, which is about how we get efficiency out of Network Rail and deliver value for money for the £4.2 billion that the Scottish Government is contributing over CP7, I have already made arrangements to meet the ORR biannually. I will meet its board to ensure that the ORR ensures that Network Rail delivers. The ORR is the regulator to ensure that we get value for money and delivery. That is the substantive mechanism to ensure that Network Rail delivers. I have, if anything, intensified my discussions with the ORR.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transport Policies and Performance

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Fiona Hyslop

I do not need to do that—I have taken advice, and I am not allowed to discuss that particular area.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transport Policies and Performance

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Fiona Hyslop

It is important to state that that is our commitment, although there are challenges with that. We should also be clear that the 20 per cent target relates to car kilometres. It is about encouraging people who currently use their car from Monday to Friday, to perhaps take public transport, such as the train, one day a week, to encourage that reduction.

It is likely that more progress will be made in our cities, and Glasgow and Edinburgh have a 30 per cent reduction target. The issue is how we make that shift in relation to the switch to electric vehicles. I know from talking to Councillor Gail Macgregor that she is a big champion of that policy, and we are keen to publish our joint report with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on how that can be done. We will do that by the autumn, as we have indicated in the climate change plan.

The issue that Councillor Macgregor reiterates is about behaviour more generally, across all car use, to encourage people to get into different habits and behaviours. As for demand management, there will be mechanisms that councils can use, at their instigation, such as those that the Labour-Liberal Democrat Executive passed way back in the early 2000s.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transport Policies and Performance

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Fiona Hyslop

I agree with you. However, a lot of the issue is to do with the technology of the ticketing system, which ScotRail inherited from Abellio. ScotRail knows that it must make changes to it. You are not the only MSP who has raised the issue with me. A number of MSPs have, and they have given good examples.

When I meet Joanne Maguire, the MD of ScotRail, I will ask about progress on the issue. I think that ScotRail is trying to address the issue, but I cannot give you the detail of how it is planning to do that. Once I have spoken to ScotRail, I would be happy to provide more information or to ask ScotRail to contact the committee directly to explain how it plans to change things. We might not be talking about an overnight change, because it is a systems issue. I will ask ScotRail to brief you at the same time, Mr Simpson.

I am alert to the issue. I share your concern, because the current situation does not make sense. We need to make sure that we have a fare structure that is simple and that, when people buy tickets, they can have confidence that they are getting the best value, because that will help to drive people on to public transport and to make them switch from the car to rail.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transport Policies and Performance

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Fiona Hyslop

They are continuing. That is a matter for the employer and the trade union, as is appropriate. The public pay matrix was issued at the end of last week. With regard to the discussions with the rail unions, I cannot comment specifically on those with the RMT, but I understand that there will be engagement. I am not sure of the timescale for when the talks with the RMT will commence, but I reiterate that it is the responsibility of the employer to engage in those discussions with the relevant trade unions.