Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 December 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 456 contributions

|

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

No—I am asking specifically about the provisions. I know about those other meetings.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

Is it not a basic principle of law that it should be clear and understood and not confused?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

I am not surprised that the motion to annul is not going to be agreed to. I know that there is unhappiness round the table, and there is a breathing space before the next statutory instrument—the big bad one—comes along, which might allow us to put something else in place. I know that the committee has been under pressure with the threat of dogs being brought up, but there may be a pause during which we can consider not proceeding to the second part. I just lay down that point without notice.

I thank members for their contributions. As I say, my passion is about legislation. I cannae help it—ye cannae take the lawyer out of me, and Katy Clark is in the same boat, as is Pauline McNeill. You cannot help yourself. I appreciate where the committee is, but what has been put on the record today is extremely important. I hope that, when we come to the next statutory instrument, we might be able to do something else. That is all that I will say.

Thank you very much for your tolerance—and I will just add that I like being patronised.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

I asked about the efficacy of the 1991 act.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

We are considering some of the consequences of the new law in England now. You mentioned 200 dogs, which were put down. That is, some 200 dogs in England were put down by their owners, and they get money from the Government to do that. What is the BVA’s position on that? What are vets’ positions on it? Vets do not like putting down healthy dogs.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

I am interested in the committee’s questions. We have had to ask questions because the law itself is just a complete mess.

Minister, you talked about a loophole. I have taken on board what you said about the processes that were undertaken with the UK Government. Had there not been issues with so-called “dumping”—I put the term in quote marks because I do not like it—of XL bully-type dogs in Scotland, would you have proceeded to take a good look, as I have asked for frequently, at the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010, which I authored, to see whether it could be tightened up even more? I refer in particular—I hope that the committee is aware of this—to section 9 of the act, which is entitled “Dangerous or unresponsive dogs”. That section applies in the home; as you have rightly said, dog attacks also happen in the home. However, the order that has been made on the basis of the UK Government’s legislation will, if it is agreed to today, not apply in the home.

Section 9 of the 2010 act applies where an authorised officer takes the view that issuing a dog control notice would not be suitable. The case would have to go to court to let it decide whether the dog in question may or may not have to be put down or whether some other action should be taken. Section 9 also gives the owner the right of appeal, and it applies to any dog.

If there was any issue in Scotland with bully XLs, would it not have been suitable to use section 9 of the 2010 act, had your position not been that there were concerns about an excess of dogs coming up to Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

In Scotland, I mean.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

The order that is before us will enter into the ambit of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. What was the view of the organisations concerned on the efficacy of the 1991 act, which already lists named breeds?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

But, because we are mirroring the law in England, I want to—

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Christine Grahame

I will ask a final question, if I may; I hope that I get to make a little submission at the end.

The huge problem is in speaking about an “XL bully-type dog”. I have looked at the conformation paragraphs—there are paragraphs—and you would need a PhD to work out whether your dog was an XL bully type, if you did not know its history.

There is a lot of sensationalism about the issue, and I want to look at it with a cool head, for the sake of everybody. I am appalled at the attacks. However, if the order goes through, and people have to muzzle their dogs and leash them in public places, do you have concerns that members of the public will wrongly identify a dog as an XL bully type and get on to the police or the local authority and make a big stramash in the local community, and then it turns out to be nothing of the kind, or it has to be DNA tested?