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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 June 2025
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Displaying 1062 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

Is there anything to add from a more legal point of view?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

The sexual offences court would be a hybrid court in that it could deal with all the High Court solemn cases as well as the serious sheriff and jury cases. On how it is constructed, we have been clear that there would be no diminution in the quality or the status of representation that is available to the accused. There are particular High Court cases that have to be—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

The point that I am making is that no one chooses the procedure or the court that they appear in right now; that decision is taken elsewhere.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

Conviction rates will be recorded. That information will be gathered.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

The fact sheet did that, but I think that I am hearing that people want more detail to be made available, the proviso being that there is still no definitive—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

It is not binary. I understand why you are pressing me, but it is not binary. Of course I want more women to have the justice that they deserve but, as I have outlined—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

We do not want to turn the clock backwards, so yes, we need more justice for more women.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

I do think that. It has always been my intention that Parliament will know that as we progress, and following deliberation by the committee. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg scenario, here. It is appropriate for me to canvass a full range of views and insights. Fundamental decisions about how the pilot will operate will have to be made in the not-too-distant future. That will certainly happen before stage 3. I hope that, before stage 2, I will at least be in a position to give more definitive detail about our thinking and the direction of travel, rather than just giving options.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

I very much agree, Mr Swinney. There are benefits in taking a more inquisitorial approach as opposed to an adversarial approach. As I alluded to earlier in the proceedings, I have spent some time engaging with other jurisdictions. I am not for a minute suggesting that a lift and shift can be done from one jurisdiction to another, but valuable learning and reflection can always be gained from experience elsewhere.

Many comparable jurisdictions have a more inquisitorial rather than adversarial approach. Given that such cases can be evidentially challenging, they need a particular approach, and the intention of the pilot is to ascertain whether a change in the decision maker will lead to better outcomes. Will more women get justice? Will the process be fairer for all involved including the accused, as well as the victims and witnesses? Will it be a better way of conducting affairs? Will it use resources more effectively? I have always been persuaded that a more inquisitorial approach is worthy of consideration, particularly in what are sensitive, complex and sometimes evidentially challenging cases.

I must also recognise, from my engagement with criminal defence lawyers, that the proposals mark a big change for people. Someone who has spent all of their career presenting evidence to persuade a jury might well find the change quite difficult. I have heard Simon Di Rollo talk about a different skill set being involved in persuading either a single judge or a panel of judges. I acknowledge that change can be difficult, but I stress that we are talking about a pilot, and we need minds to be engaged on it, because the fact is that we are collectively failing people, primarily women and girls, and I think that we all agree that we want to do better.

We need to find a way to bring as many people as we can on board with the proposition of a pilot. I give the committee the absolute assurance that we will do whatever we can to provide more detail and clarity on key decisions at an earlier stage.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Angela Constance

I think that there is huge value in having written reasons, for the reasons that I outlined to Ms McNeill earlier. For a start, such a move will provide an unparalleled quality of deliberative information. The provision of written reasons as part of the pilot, together with transparency for victims and safeguarding the rights of the accused, will give us an unrivalled opportunity to gather better evidence about what the real issues, deliberations and challenges are. It will give us information that we cannot, with the best will in the world, gather in any other fashion.