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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 July 2025
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Displaying 867 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

The scheme would have gone ahead in August 2023 if the UK Government had granted a full exclusion on the timeline that we had previously agreed.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

That is a fair question. It is almost certain that we will need to revise the regulations again anyway, because, for example, if the DMO is able to set deposit levels, we will need to remove our 20p deposit from the Scottish scheme. There may be other conditions. For example, we have written into the regs the exclusion of producers who produce 5,000 or fewer of a particular line. Our exemption rules are in our regulations. If the UK Government has completely different ideas about all that, we would have to repeal it all. Rather than coming back to the Parliament repeatedly, we will wait to see what the UK Government puts into its regulations and, provided that it is in line with what we have agreed through the common framework and our negotiations, we will bring forward those regulations, so that you will have to see them only once and will not have to look at them over and over.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

No, thank you, convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

Over the summer, we have been working with officials to come up with sensible conditions for interoperability, such as how we will agree on how we will set the deposit and on how exclusions will work. That has been discussed among officials, and it is now for DEFRA and the UK Government to sign that off, to agree on what the conditions will be and to set that out in its regulations.

We are waiting on DEFRA’s timescale; I do not have a timescale for that. I do not know whether my officials have more of an update.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

That is a question for DEFRA. It is for DEFRA to say how it wants to implement the scheme and how it intends that scheme to operate in the UK.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

I am sorry; I was distracted. Could you repeat the question?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

If we had been able to run a scheme, Circularity Scotland would have been able to operate it. As you rightly point out, Circularity Scotland was willing to operate a scheme without glass, but none of us can operate a deposit return scheme if we do not know what the level of the deposit will be, so we were unable to proceed.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

That is correct.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

The challenge that I have there is that, in this case, the common framework failed to do its job. We engaged from 2021 with the UK Government on the deposit return scheme legislation. We went through every step of that common framework. The common frameworks are the mechanisms by which the UK and the devolved Governments work together to come to agreement. Our officials had worked together. I met my UK Government DEFRA counterparts monthly, and we had worked through the framework all the way through. We had done everything that we needed to do. We understood that we would secure the full exclusion from the 2020 act because we had done everything that we needed to do in order to secure it.

We did not get the exclusion that we expected to get as a result of the common framework process, nor did we get the partial and temporary exclusion that we did get in a timely manner. That came very late in the day, at the end of May, but we had been working with UK Government on the scheme for years.

If UK Government ministers are not following the process of the common framework or agreeing to abide by the common framework, and can, in fact, change their mind at the 11th hour on a whim, we have a challenge. The other point is that the UK Government has not provided any evidence for the change. The UK Government did not do impact assessments on the change and, as far as I am aware, it has not even written out to say why it made this change. If the UK Government can proceed in that way, the common frameworks are clearly not working.

I am almost certain that the UK Government would not take it well if I stepped away from the common frameworks process and changed my mind at the last minute about something that had previously been agreed. I feel that that would go down badly.

11:15  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Lorna Slater

No, thank you, convener.

Motion agreed to.