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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 21 October 2025
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Displaying 882 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

I have a question that is more for my own interest, if the convener will allow it.

One of the conversations that we have been having in the committee is about proactive and reactive work that commissioners do. The Ombudsman deals with something that has gone wrong, but whose job is it to do the research and have the foresight to see something before it goes wrong?

To put that in context, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman, for example, can react to complaints that she has heard of. However, if she receives complaints about two local authorities, she does not have the powers to start an investigation into all local authorities. Even though she might have the idea that there is a more general problem, she does not have the power to examine it in a more investigative way with the intention of preventing future problems. Do you have any bodies that have that sort of proactive prevention role?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Thank you for joining us, Dr Wilson. This is fascinating. I will dig into similar points that my colleague the convener asked about.

In Scotland, we have some parallels with your officers in that we also have an ombudsman and an Auditor General. We have a couple of other functions, which I am sure that you implement in New Zealand, but I am interested to hear how. Among our SPCB-supported bodies, we have the Scottish Human Rights Commission, which I think is a fairly common thing for western democracies to have. We also have a couple of different bodies that are responsible for standards in public life, which is about making sure that we, local councillors and so on play by the rules, meet our codes of conduct and that kind of thing. I am curious about how you cover those functions.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

I am jumping around a little bit, but I will go back to the convener’s point about budgets. You have explained a bit about the process of the Officers of Parliament Committee working annually to set those budgets. How is the transparency and accountability of those allocations achieved? You said that you could add more detail on that.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Understood. That is the direction that I was going to travel in on the scrutiny role.

I am also curious about independent Crown entities. One of the challenges that we face in Scotland is that we have a proliferation of SPCB-supported bodies, which are our equivalent of the officers of Parliament. That is the case in the public sector landscape in general, and we are trying to get our heads around it. Have you noticed the same phenomenon with your independent Crown entities? How do they fit into the system?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Dr Wilson, I will now get into the more practical operational questions about things such as shared offices, information technology systems and human resources support. I am curious about the kind of resources that are supplied to the officers of Parliament and the independent Crown entities and about whether they are expected to use common office space, HR support and so on.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Is the scrutiny by the subject committees of both the officers of Parliament and the Crown entities on any sort of rigorous schedule? Does it happen annually, or is it up to the committees to decide? Is there a framework?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Understood. If, during scrutiny, an officer of Parliament or one of the Crown entities is found not to be performing effectively against their function, how would that issue be identified and resolved, and are there any examples where that has happened?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

I would like to dig into what both Andrew Lamond and Ian Hughes said about the faster, quicker learning, particularly for a mature student, in a bit more detail. One of the things that I am concerned about is the varying quality of provision, which may be because we have varying needs. I have heard a concern from trade unions and other trade bodies that apprenticeships are too quick, that we are rushing people through and that they are not gaining the right qualifications. Your view seems to be the other way around. Do you want to elaborate on that? I ask Andrew Lamond to start.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

My next question is for Kellie Zdanowicz. During our evidence gathering, we have heard from employers about their frustrations with college provision—some of which you have outlined—including the timing of that provision and colleges not being able to keep up with the technology. Lothian Buses is using hydrogen buses and electric buses, and the colleges just cannot keep up with the technology. On the flipside of that, I have heard from apprentices who are going through independent training providers. Do you also represent employers who do their own training?