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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 3634 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

Okay. Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

That brings our first evidence session this morning to a close. I thank our witnesses for their time.

10:08 Meeting suspended.  

10:30 On resuming—  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

We will now hear evidence from our second panel, which is on university funding. I welcome Dr Gavan Conlon, a partner with London Economics; Ellie Gomersall, president of the National Union of Students Scotland; and Mary Senior, Scotland official from the University and College Union Scotland. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for your written submissions. We will move straight to members’ questions. For this panel, we will kick off with questions from Ross Greer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

So perhaps you are arguing for reform of fees and how universities are funded. l come to Mary Senior now.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

Ellie, there was a lot in that answer, so rather than repeating points, it would be helpful if you could focus on some other issues.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

Pam Duncan-Glancy has a brief supplementary question before we close the session.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

If there is time at the end, we can pick that up again.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

Yes—we are very much aware that we are a panel member down.

David Belsey said that students are studying part time because they have to work, but I wonder whether we could tip that on its head a little. The world is now very different in terms of flexible working and how people learn and live. Do you think that having more flexible courses might be more beneficial for colleges in getting more people to come in? That would put a more positive spin on the opportunities that flexible learning and courses offer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

That is okay.

Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges 2023” stated that

“further ... staffing reductions ... could severely erode”

colleges’

“ability to deliver a viable curriculum.”

David Belsey has spoken about that a bit. The SFC has said that 21 per cent of staff could be removed from the sector by 2025-26. What assessment have you made of the current staffing situation? What action do the Scottish Government and the Scottish Funding Council have to take to help colleges in that regard?

Who would like to go first?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sue Webber

We understand all that, but 70 per cent of colleges’ expenditure is made up from staff, so people are the most valuable resource. There is a mismatch there. The colleges will have to make some really challenging decisions—they do not have the money coming to them, so they have to consider all their resources and, unfortunately, those in the college sector will have to make decisions about staff.

Do you not feel that the unions are a bit out of touch in managing and understanding the pressures that are on leaders in our college sector across the country as to some of the challenging decisions that they have to make? As hard as it is, in the financial environment that they work in, with the lack of flexibility that they face, they have to take such decisions.