Rebecca Scarlett also wants to comment.

Oh, I am sorry—Lee-Anne wants to come in. I thought that you meant just on that point. I am going to apologise on the record, because this is the first virtual meeting that we have done for a while and I have not quite got into the swing of it.

I will follow up on a specific transition issue that we heard about on Monday evening.

Dr Stark, you mentioned the level of intensity and expertise that is in your paediatric services but that, when a young person transitions on to the adult services, there is a bit of catch-up or they do not know where to go. We heard specifically about audiology and how a young person had the latest technology in relation to their hearing aid and all the systems, but that, when they went to adult services, the young person had to train the professional on how to use those systems. Do you get the sense that that is replicated across the country? Is that the case only in audiology or is it the case in other services?

The question, please.

Welcome back. I am sorry for the slight delay. We will now take evidence from our second panel of witnesses on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill.

I welcome Dr Kandarp Joshi—I apologise if I have not pronounced your name correctly—who is a consultant from NHS Grampian and vice-chair of the child and adolescent faculty of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland; Nicole Kane, policy and public affairs lead Scotland at the Royal College of Occupational Therapists; and Dr Mairi Stark, Scottish officer at the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health.

Members will direct a question to one of the witnesses initially, but, if anyone else wants to come in, they should please feel free to put R in the chat box. The first group of questions is from my colleague Ruth Maguire.

A lot of ground was covered there. The witnesses might find that there is a bit of overlap with topics that will come up throughout the evidence-taking session. I apologise for that.

I would hate to pre-empt our college inquiry report. I thank Mr Mason for his question, but, if he does not mind, we will wait until later in the year to see what that says.

Although there has been an increase of £26 million in the colleges resource budget for the coming year, that is only 0.6 per cent in real terms. It is important that colleges find out what that means for baseline funding in future years.

In 2022, Audit Scotland highlighted that capital funding has

“consistently fallen short of the level needed”

for maintenance in colleges. Furthermore, given that the ability of colleges to raise funds is limited, the committee is concerned that they will not be able to meet their net zero targets by 2045. We believe that an assessment of the current position and an investment strategy should be completed as a matter of urgency.

I will speak briefly about universities. Our universities have a fabulous reputation across the world. We welcome the students who come from across the world and we recognise the cultural diversity that they bring. However, Scotland’s funding model for universities is now structurally reliant on international fees; that source of revenue is forecast to overtake Scottish Government funding as a percentage of the sector’s total income, by 2023-24. We have asked the Scottish Government how it plans to ensure long-term sustainability and to mitigate the risks of reliance on international student fee income.

In closing, I am sure that members would like to join me in thanking the staff who delivered vital services to children and young people across Scotland.

I rise to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. For our budget scrutiny, we chose to look at both ends of the educational spectrum: early learning and childcare, and further and higher education.

August 2021 marked the introduction of the duty on local authorities to secure 1,140 hours of early learning and childcare for all three and four-year-olds and eligible two-year-olds. Members will know that local authorities have a dual role: they are ELC providers and they commission services from private, voluntary and independent nurseries and childminders.

Since the roll-out of the 1,140 hours, PVI providers have faced significant difficulties in recruitment. The Scottish Childminding Association told us that, during ELC expansion, the sector has lost more than 1,400 childminders. The National Day Nurseries Association described to us a crisis in the ELC workforce caused by the expansion in local authority employment and the pandemic.

The issues that have been raised with us include the rates of pay for providers differing between local authorities, as the Scottish Government guidance does not set out a specific rate for local authorities to pay. The committee has recommended that a mapping exercise be carried out, because we want to find out what hourly rates are being paid to staff across local authorities and the PVI sector. We also want to know the extent to which staff are moving from jobs in the PVI sector into local authorities and the monetary value of the in-kind support that is provided to the PVI sector.

We found that the rates that are paid to the PVI and childminding sectors vary between local authorities. For three to five-year-olds, they range from £5 an hour in Orkney to £6.40 an hour in West Lothian. We found that different rates apply for two-year-olds and that different rates are paid to childminders in some local authorities.

The committee is aware that a small number of local authorities do not provide an uplift in funding to the PVI sector for two-year-olds, despite the increased cost of that provision. We were told that underfunding is an on-going concern for many of those in the PVI sector, with several now operating at a loss. We also heard that the Scottish Government is reviewing the overall process for setting sustainable rates. We look forward to receiving information about the financial health of the sector and about the critical issue of staff pay, terms and conditions.

As part of the inquiry, we learned that, although some two-year-olds are eligible for funded places, uptake has been low, at around only 13 per cent in 2020-21. Local authorities have struggled to identify eligible families. However, we were pleased to learn recently that new data-sharing arrangements will allow local authorities to target information to eligible households. We all hope that that will lead to an increase in uptake.

The choice of where and when children access funded ELC is very important to parents and care givers. Private providers can offer greater flexibility than local authority-run settings. That flexibility is essential to those who do not work around traditional office hours, such as healthcare workers, albeit not only to them.

Cross-border provision is available between a small number of local authorities. We heard some evidence on that, from Argyll and Bute. That flexibility has been helpful for parents who live and work in different local authority areas. Local authorities are expected to work together to resolve cross-border issues and the Scottish Government has offered to look at what further work might be necessary to allow families across Scotland to access cross-border solutions.

Another sector that offers vital services to people across Scotland is our colleges. They do fantastic work, and we all want them to thrive and to deliver the skilled workforce that is essential to growing Scotland’s economy. We heard about the significant funding challenges that are faced by our colleges. The Scottish Funding Council said that the sector forecasts an underlying operating deficit in every academic year to 2026-27. Staff costs make up a high proportion of colleges’ overall costs, and the sector projects significant staff reductions, of around 200 to 300 full-time equivalent staff members in each of the next five years.

That brings the public part of today’s meeting to an end. We will consider our final agenda item in private.

Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee in 2023. We have received apologies from Stephen Kerr and we welcome Meghan Gallacher, who is attending in his place.

The first item on our agenda is consideration of a piece of subordinate legislation that was deferred from last week’s meeting: the Education (Fees and Student Support) (Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/ 362). Does anyone have any comments to make on that instrument?

There are no comments. Do members agree that the committee does not wish to make any recommendations in relation to the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.