The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
Briefly.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
The committee is looking for a definitive timeline for your response to the review.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
Yes—sorry.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
Have you concluded, Ms Duncan-Glancy?
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
The detail of the demand-led budget lines is all coming out in the wash as the conversation progresses.
We move on to questions from Stephanie Callaghan.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for their evidence this morning. That concludes the public part of our proceedings. The committee will move into private session to consider the final agenda item.
12:38 Meeting continued in private until 12:57.Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
My recollection of the evidence was that it was about the complementary nature of having teachers, pupil support assistants and speech and language therapists in the classroom, so it was not perhaps as binary as—
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
We have a number of supplementaries on the same theme. I must ask that they be kept brief.
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
Given the pressure on my final statement, I will conclude my remarks there. It is important that we address violence in the classroom.
15:34Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 17 January 2024
Sue Webber
I welcome the chance to speak in the debate, and I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for securing it. I echo Liam Kerr’s comment that education is the foundation of a successful Scotland, which Alex Rowley also echoed.
At this morning’s meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the cabinet secretary said that she accepted that it will be a challenge to get it right for Scotland’s teachers and that, in last year’s pay negotiations, there was not enough action on teachers’ working conditions. We know that reduced contact time, pupils’ behaviour and violence in the classroom are all issues that need to be dealt with and which impact on teachers’ working conditions.
Arguably, the most pressing issue is the need to address the deterioration in pupils’ behaviour since the pandemic, which has been raised over and over by teachers and parents. Violent and disruptive behaviour in our classrooms has been getting worse.
Back in June last year, the committee held a round-table discussion with parent groups, teachers, educational psychologists and children’s right organisations. As Alex Rowley mentioned, the cabinet secretary hosted summits in June, August and November of last year, but, to be frank, I do not have a sense that any substantive recommendations, actions or changes have come from those summits.
The Scottish Government’s “Behaviour in Scottish Schools 2023” report found that levels of disruption have increased across all surveyed categories. Low-level disruptive behaviour, disengagement and serious disruptive behaviours have all increased since 2016. That has been accompanied by a decline in most reported positive behaviours. Instances of verbal abuse and physical aggression towards pupils and staff have risen in number.
The proportion of secondary school support staff who have experienced violence between pupils has risen from less than one in five to almost one in two. Most teachers and school staff are witnessing and being subjected to considerable instances of negative behaviour. The Government’s report found that two thirds of staff had encountered general verbal abuse, almost three in five had encountered physical aggression and more than two in five had experienced physical violence between pupils in the classroom in the past week. I know that I would not want to work in such conditions. Why are we subjecting our teachers to that?
The report stated:
“In secondary schools, the behaviour most commonly reported as having the greatest negative impact was pupils using/looking at mobile phones or tablets when they should not. More than half of secondary school staff ... said this was one of the three behaviours that had the greatest negative impact”.
Therefore, it will come as no surprise to members that I again want to discuss that issue. Of course, most pupils are well behaved, but all suffer from the consequences of disruption in their classrooms and are vulnerable to distraction. Experts recognise the addictive nature of constant access to social media. I am sure that many of us could look in the mirror in that respect.
Mobile phones are not the only cause of the growing school discipline problems—the report also cites the rising incidence of drug and alcohol consumption—but, if mobile phones are a significant contributor to those problems, their removal must surely be part of the solution. Banning mobile phones from schools will not solve the deep-rooted problems that exist, but it will help.
Across the country, we also face the problem of “ghost pupils”, which I want to briefly discuss. Hundreds of pupils in Scotland failed to attend a single day of school last year. The number of those under 16 who recorded zero attendance rose to a record high of more than 600, which included more than 300 primary 1 to 7 children. While the reasons for those absences vary, one senior teaching union official said that they included rising violence in classrooms and cuts to education budgets.
Those startling numbers come in the wake of last month’s analysis by the programme for international student assessment, which reported a long-term—