The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2024 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is day 3 of our consideration of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill at stage 2.
In our previous meetings, the committee considered amendments and agreed up to and including section 21 of the bill. We will therefore begin consideration of the amendments to the bill following section 21.
I welcome back the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise and her supporting officials. The officials who are seated at the table are here to support the minister, but they are not able to speak in debates on amendments. Members should therefore direct their comments or questions for the Scottish Government to the minister.
Before we begin, I will briefly explain the procedure that we will follow this morning for anyone who is watching for the first time. The amendments that have been lodged on the bill have been grouped together. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the member who has lodged the first amendment in the group to speak to and move that amendment, and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call other members who have lodged amendments in that group. Members who have not lodged amendments in the group but who wish to speak should catch my attention. I will then invite the minister to contribute to the debate if she has not already spoken on the group. The debate on the group will be concluded by me inviting the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up.
After the debate on each group, I will check whether the member who moved the first amendment in the group wishes to press it to a vote or to seek to withdraw it. If they wish to press the amendment, I will put the question on that amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw their amendment after it has been moved, they must seek the agreement of other members to do so. If any member who is present objects to its withdrawal, the committee immediately moves to a vote on that amendment. If any member does not want to move their amendment when it is called, they should say, “Not moved.” Please note that any other member present may move the amendment. If no one moves the amendment, I will immediately call the next amendment on the marshalled list.
I remind everyone that only committee members are allowed to vote and that voting in a division is done by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerking team has recorded the vote.
The committee is required to indicate formally that it has considered and agreed to each section of the bill, so I will put a question on each section at the appropriate point.
Now that we have covered housekeeping matters, we can start the substantive business.
After section 21
Amendments 207 to 209 not moved.
Amendment 210 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
No other member wants to come in, so I will hand over to you, minister, to respond to some of the points that were made from Martin Whitfield onward.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
There will be a division.
For
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)
Against
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
The question is, that amendment 211 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
The behaviour is rather irrelevant when I say that it is about a child who has caused harm and a child who has been harmed. Making a descriptor of behaviour in that regard would muddy the waters a little bit.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
Now, breaking with tradition, I call myself, Sue Webber, to speak to an amendment in my name.
Amendment 221, which I lodged after last week’s committee meeting, is very simple. It is there specifically to ensure that a child will not be put in the same secure accommodation as the child who has caused them harm. It is not much more complicated than that. The intention behind the amendment is to ensure that children are safe in secure accommodation. As I said, it is very simple.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
Do the officials have anything to add?
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
I call Roz McCall to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 108.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
The result of the division is: For 7, Against 2, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 110 agreed to.
Amendment 111 moved—[Natalie Don]—and agreed to.
Section 23, as amended, agreed to.
After section 23
Amendment 213 moved—[Martin Whitfield].
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 7 February 2024
Sue Webber
The question is, that amendment 213 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.