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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 1169 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

The subject is obviously really important for a lot of people, especially people who own XL bullies. Did you not think that it would be good for you to have a meeting with UK ministers to ask for the rationale?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

You said that six weeks is a tight timescale, but we are being asked to put the order in place in less than four weeks. Do you—

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

Can you clarify something that you said earlier? Groups such as rehoming centres are concerned that, come Friday, they will need to have dogs put to sleep. However, when you spoke earlier, you said something about rehoming centres being able to seek an exemption for the dogs in their care. Does that mean that, come Friday, rehoming centres will be able to keep the dogs that they have and not put them to sleep?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

So, we do not have any figures at all: we do not know if it is 10 dogs, 100 dogs or 1,000 dogs. We do not have anything at all.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

You mentioned that you had received letters. In a letter, Michael Gove MP warned that Scotland could become a “dumping ground” for XL bullies and raised concerns that it had not yet been possible to secure equivalent protections in Scotland. What engagement did you have with the UK Government? How many meetings and phone calls did you have?

I will go back to a couple of things that you have just said. You mentioned the announcement on 15 September and said that there had been no communication with the Scottish Government. I am under the impression that, on 15 September, when the UK Government made the announcement, UK officials were also in contact with Scottish Government officials.

You also mentioned that 21 September was the first meeting of the working group. Again, I am under the impression that Scottish Government officials were part of that working group and that they helped to come up with the definition and conformation of the dog breed. You said that you have had no communication, but I am under the impression that Scottish Government officials were involved from the day of the announcement and that every letter that you received asked for meetings with the Scottish Government and for you to be involved, because the UK Government wanted it to be a joint approach, so that there would be none of the loopholes that you are talking about.

I am also under the impression that the loopholes have been created because there has been no engagement on the matter with the UK Government from the Scottish Government. It is the lack of legislation in Scotland that has created the loophole. That happened because we did not put the legislation in at the same time.

09:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

You may have engaged with stakeholders, but you have chosen not to engage at all with ministers in Westminster.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

I am wondering about the loophole, as it was highlighted that it could have been an issue. If you had engaged with UK ministers, would you have expected the UK Government to legislate for crimes that might be committed in Scotland? I would have thought that that would come under our remit. At the moment it seems that, if somebody rehomes a dog, abandons a dog or does not register a dog, that is an offence in England and Wales. I think the UK Government said that, if somebody then came to Scotland with their dog, those would not be offences in Scotland, so it could not legislate for that. Would you have expected the UK Government to legislate for something in Scotland? Is that not why the UK Government was trying to engage with you, so that you could put something in place here?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

Why have you not had any meetings with the UK Government?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

I go back to my previous questions. I understand your frustration at hearing about the implementation of the new legislation through the BBC, because, as an MSP, I know that it is frustrating to hear announcements through the BBC rather than through a Scottish Government ministerial statement in the chamber. All that you did was write a letter to the UK Government on 14 November. Other than that, you have chosen not to engage at all with the UK Government.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Sharon Dowey

If you were not concerned about the safety concerns when the UK Government was introducing its legislation, what changed between then and now for you now to be implementing legislation here? Do you have figures for how many dogs have been brought into Scotland?