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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 May 2025
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Displaying 1114 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

In the same inspection report, you noted that Police Scotland

“is now inhibited from operating effectively by the level of internal governance it is applying to compensate for a lack of individual accountability”.

Again, that needs to be corrected if we are to reach the aims of the bill that we want to reach. Do you think that that issue is addressed in the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Do you think that the financial memorandum as it stands is realistic?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

So that is a process within Police Scotland that needs to be fixed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Good morning. I turn to the response in your submission on section 15 of the bill—

“Review of, and recommendations about, practices and policies of the police”—

about proposals for the PIRC to review and make recommendations on the practices and policies of Police Scotland or the SPA in relation to a specific complaint or more generally. His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland does not support that, but the PIRC seems to support it. Could you expand on that a wee bit? Do you have a good working relationship with the PIRC, and why do you not support that element of the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

It does. I take on board your point about not wanting an overlap. I think that, from the PIRC’s perspective, it was concerned that you did not have enough resources to complete the tasks that it was asking you to do. Could you give examples of where the PIRC has identified an issue with a practice or policy and passed it to you for investigation, and what the outcome was?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

There might be a question about why it would think that you do not have enough resources when it has never asked you to look at any processes, but that is not a question for you.

Is your memorandum of understanding up to date? I ask because the date on the front of the most recent one that I can find is October 2017 and it was signed on the back on 11 January 2019, which is five years ago, but it is described as “biennial”, which means every two years. Does that also need to be updated?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

We heard yesterday, and have heard in previous evidence, that secondary legislation is urgently needed to address some shortfalls. Do you think that that should be urgently looked at? Should it be written into the bill if it is to have any meaningful impact?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

We heard that when a police officer is suspended for gross misconduct, you have to wait until the criminal case is concluded before you can dismiss them. Could that be addressed in the bill, or is that a bigger problem?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

In your letter to the committee, you talk about a culture of “error terror”, which is the fear of being investigated for simply making a mistake. That is a part of the culture that needs to be changed within the force and that the bill is aimed at correcting. In one of your recent inspections of culture in Police Scotland, you found that

“financial and resource constraint was one of the primary factors”

preventing culture change. The financial memorandum’s estimate of the cost of the bill has already increased from £1.4 million to £5.8 million. Do you think that there will be a further significant rise in the estimated cost of the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

So you think that it will rise.