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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 May 2025
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Displaying 1114 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

I am under the impression that—

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Good morning. Section 15 of the bill gives the PIRC the power to review practices and policies of the police in general, and not just in relation to a particular incident. Although the PIRC supports that, HMICS does not. However, when we heard from Craig Naylor last week, he said that, in the two years that he has been in his role, the PIRC has not passed a single policy or procedure of Police Scotland to HMICS for review. Is the section 15 power necessary for the PIRC? HMICS suggested that it could blur responsibilities.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

It has been highlighted a lot in the evidence that we have received. I will come on to that in a wee minute, but it looks as if it needs to be examined in great detail.

The Scottish ministers can also direct HMICS to undertake research or inspection activity in relation to any aspect of policing in Scotland. Have you directed HMICS to look at any aspects of police regulations or conduct procedures?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Do you know of any direction that has been given to HMICS to look into any of the policies and procedures of Police Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

That is what I am saying: a lot of that work would fix some of the problems that we have had with the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

I will go back to the previous question. I am still quite confused about what we need secondary legislation for and what can just be put into terms and conditions of employment with the police. Is any of the bill needed in order to update and modernise the policy, procedures and regulations of Police Scotland or can it do that outwith the bill?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

On some of the things that we have heard from Police Scotland, I asked last week:

“In the interests of everybody who wants quick resolutions to their problems ... do we need to get that in the bill right now, instead of having to wait for secondary legislation?”

The answer from Deputy Chief Constable Speirs was:

“That would be my ask of the committee.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 22 May 2024; c 41.]

Therefore, I wonder whether it would speed things up for the victims and for the people who are the subject of the allegations of a complaint to bring the secondary legislation in more quickly. There was an example of a case of someone who has now been suspended for three years. Will anything in the bill speed up that process? I wonder how much communication you would have with a victim who wants something to be done with regard to a police officer who is still on full pay in a case that has been on-going for three years and is lost somewhere in the justice system. I cannot imagine that that victim will get a regular phone call, when it has taken three years to deal with it. That is where they feel let down.

Also, we are talking about the public purse and the fact that finances are finite, so is there anything in the bill that will solve that situation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

Police Scotland felt that a lot of what was holding it back related to the fact that many of the regulations were out of date. We have heard that in our evidence, and you will have heard that in your regular meetings. Has anyone been given an instruction to look at and update the current policies, procedures and regulations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

In two years, has the PIRC ever given you any policies or procedures to investigate?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Sharon Dowey

No problem.

Your letter to the committee states:

“It takes far too long for the Criminal Justice organisations to investigate criminal complaints or conduct matters leaving those who report them and those subject to investigation with unresolved matters for far too long”

and that

“There is a general lack of pace applied to the investigation but probably more importantly the decision making around these cases.”

Does the bill do enough to rectify that?