Chamber and committees

Does anyone else want to come in?

The Audit Scotland blog refers to a task force that was set up by the Scottish Government and COSLA in 2018, which concluded that earlier guidance and support was required for GPs, health visitors, school nurses and others. What guidance and support exists for those professions in 2021? What changes have been made?

That question is directed, in the first instance, at Dr Morton, after which Mr McKay from Unison might want to come in and anyone else who would like to comment.

The session 5 committee stated that the absence of basic data was a concern. I will read out some of the comments in that committee’s 2019 report on children and young people’s mental health. In relation to spending on CAMHS, the then Auditor General said that

“the numbers are so variable as not to be credible”.

Audit Scotland said:

“We saw gaps and problems throughout the system in terms of how the money is accounted for and, critically, in terms of what difference any of it makes to children. We have made a series of recommendations in the report that those things need to be sharpened.”

It also said:

“we understand that boards will choose which ones they want to measure, and that will make benchmarking very difficult.”

There is a common theme here.

In her response to that report, the then Minister for Mental Health outlined work that the Scottish Government was progressing with NHS National Services Scotland to improve the quality and scope of the available data. Considering that the report is now two years old, to what extent has the work been progressed?

I will direct the first question to Mr Boyle, the Auditor General. Audit Scotland’s blog presents quite a bleak picture of performance in terms of access to child and adolescent mental health services, particularly given the significant investment that has been made. The blog says:

“But the picture today is similar to 2018, despite significant investment.”

Do we have any idea of the extent of the funding and whether we can track that spend against outcomes?

Good morning. I am an MSP for South Scotland.

Thank you. Does anyone else want to come in?

Your comments are quite concerning, because they are the same as the comments that I have just read in the report that was published in 2018. That is why we are trying to look at where the money is going and whether we can measure what the outcomes are.

Mr McKay, would you like to comment?

Today, we have heard a variety of views from across the chamber, including from Angus Robertson and Alex Rowley, and we heard powerful speeches from Willie Rennie and my Conservative colleagues about Scotland’s place in the world. Although views vary, we can all find common ground in our desire to see Scots contributing to societies across the globe in a positive and thoughtful manner.

The history of Scotland and the United Kingdom is littered with examples of Scotland as a leading light in the world. Whether it is through the charitable works of Andrew Carnegie, the influence of David Hume and Adam Smith, or the power of Walter Scott’s pen, Scotland’s influence has been felt far and wide and has brought enlightenment and prosperity to the lives of others.

Of course, not all our overseas adventures have gone so well—just look at the infamous Darien scheme or the role of the Glasgow tobacco lords in developing the slave trade. On the whole, however, Scotland and the UK have excelled in setting a positive agenda around the globe, and in forging partnerships that endure to this day.

As my colleague Donald Cameron highlighted, it is only right that Scottish Governments seek to develop relationships with other nations. Jack McConnell’s trips to New York and the Scotland-Malawi partnership come to mind, but those schemes were never designed to interfere with UK foreign policy. They were designed to complement it, not compete with it; that is where the difference lies. As with so many aspects of devolution, constructive engagement in foreign policy creates an environment for co-operation and success, rather than for division and failure.

The development of international offices, although it is unobjectionable in itself, comes with an eye-watering price tag. As Donald Cameron highlighted, £8 million is a huge amount of money that could be better spent close to home on recruiting ambulance drivers or more teachers. Quite why we need to spend £2.2 million—[Interruption.] I cannot take an intervention, as I have a lot of points to get through. Quite why we need a £2.2 million international base in London is a question to which I am yet to hear an adequate answer. One would think that any Scottish Government that promotes international trade—[Interruption.] No. I will not take an intervention as I want to get through my points. One would think that any Scottish Government that promotes international trade basing trade hubs in British embassies would support the UK Government’s search for new markets for Scottish products, and its plans for free ports to boost Scottish manufacturing. However, we hear nothing in support of those efforts.

There is no recognition of the 70 trade deals with countries in every corner of the world, nor of what they mean for Scotland. There is only silence on that from the SNP. If we look at any trade deal that the UK Government has signed—whether it is with Japan, Australia, Ukraine or Singapore—we see that the SNP has voted against them all. The SNP has failed to back any trade deal for more than 15 years—even the EU-Canada agreement. For a party that is supposedly keen on international trade, that is a strange way to go about things.

All those deals are good news for Scottish businesses. Often, it is Scots in the Foreign Office or the Department for International Trade, working on fostering the links that lead to trade deals, who strike the agreements. Their work is undervalued by the SNP, which is a shame to see.

Tess White explored the issue a little further and looked at the range of fantastic initiatives that are being promoted by the UK across the globe, all of which involve Scots in leading capacities. Whether it is the admirable efforts that have been put into distributing the Oxford vaccine overseas, the commitment to get 40 million more girls into school, or the impact of the AUKUS deal on enhancing global security, those projects are all joint works among the people of Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. One could say that they are achievements of the four nations. However, we do not hear from the SNP about those laudable schemes, nor do we hear about the role of Scots in securing the objectives.

It is not only in foreign policy that the United Kingdom, with Scotland as a partner, is succeeding. On the climate front, the UK’s efforts to combat climate change across the globe have continued for many years. As Maurice Golden pointed out, those efforts are providing clean energy to millions and are reducing greenhouse gas emissions by hundreds of millions of tonnes. On top of that, the UK Government has committed nearly £12 billion to helping developing countries to manage the impact of climate change. Let us also not forget that the UK was the first advanced economy in the world to set a net zero target for 2050.

Of course, there is still a great deal of work to do. The UK has always been a standard bearer for international liberty, the rule of law and liberal democracy, and it must continue to be that. We have a duty to promote free markets and to uphold the international order, which is increasingly under threat from authoritarian regimes. [Interruption.] That was a bit loud. Such regimes will only prosper from division among the four nations of the UK, which means that it is more important than ever that we stand together.

The same goes for the world of science. Today, the Prime Minister set out his ambition for the UK to secure status as a science and tech superpower by 2030. The Oxford vaccine programme, which is being rolled out across the world, is just one part of that grander strategy. So, too, are the drive to create Scottish space ports and the push to attract the best and the brightest through the global talent visa.

When standing together, Scotland and the UK are one of the greatest progressive forces for change in the world. When our people work hand in glove, great things happen.

On data and outcomes—about which our predecessor committee raised significant concerns—there is a recurring key audit theme about incomplete and poor-quality data, which prevents us from measuring the progress and success of a policy and whether it is delivering value for money. It is particularly frustrating that the impact of a lack of data was previously highlighted in Audit Scotland’s 2012 report, “Reducing reoffending in Scotland”. Are you aware of any improvements that have been made in that area over the past nine years?