Chamber and committees

You would not be, because when the public dial 999, they expect a response from the fire service. Regardless of how many fires there are in an area, they expect the response time to be met. You have already said that firefighters do lots of things other than fighting fires, but, nevertheless, we expect them to be there.

The impact of the budget could be that the risk is passed on to the public, because if a station closes, it will take longer for an appliance to get to a call. If a proposal is made to reduce the number of firefighters or to close a station, is a risk assessment done to make people aware of that risk?

You are saying that it is not just fires that you respond to; there are a lot more incidents that you go to, including road traffic accidents.

We have seen the High Court of Justiciary impose four-year custodial sentences for knife assaults that have caused severe injury, permanent disfigurement and even cases in which emergency brain surgery was required. Can the cabinet secretary confirm whether, under her proposals, offenders who are convicted of crimes of that gravity could be released after serving only around 30 per cent of their sentence? If so, how can she possibly expect the public to have confidence in the justice system when judges impose four years only for offenders to be released after little more than a year?

During the scrutiny of the bill, I and my colleagues on the Criminal Justice Committee heard of the trauma and devastation that involvement in prostitution can cause. This morning, Ash Regan shared with us the experiences of some survivors of prostitution. Those experiences struck me, and I believe that it is important that we listen to survivors. Venessa MacLeod recounted that she felt little more than

“an object, an item of purchased property that men felt entitled to use however they wanted.”

She wrote of her experience, which left her feeling so severely traumatised that she was

“stuck in a never-ending cycle of fear, flashbacks and panic.”

Eradicating prostitution is clearly not an easy task, but, as elected representatives, we are duty bound to try our best. We believe that much of the bill will support that cause, even if there is room for improving and tightening up some of the ideas within it.

I thank Ash Regan for bringing this important bill to the chamber. As we are nearing the end of this parliamentary session, I am concerned that we may not have enough time to work out the required amendments, but I am disappointed that the SNP Government is prepared to reject the bill without trying. Given that the SNP has brought bills to the chamber that have required hundreds of amendments, as Liam Kerr said earlier, SNP members could at least try if they wanted to.

It is absolutely right that the burden of criminality is taken away from vulnerable people at one end of the scale, many of whom are victims of serious crime, and moved on to the powerful, coercive and opportunistic users at the other end.

There is evidence from other countries that many of the measures proposed in the bill would have a positive impact, but there is also evidence that, if they are not implemented properly, the bill might not have the meaningful impact that it is designed to have.

As things stand, the incidence of crimes associated with prostitution is rising, and many victims of human trafficking and coercion are victims of sexual exploitation. We must ensure that, along with creating a new offence, our authorities have the power and the tools to enforce it. I am glad to see that Police Scotland is supportive of the bill, but the police must also fret about their capabilities when it comes to acting on any new laws, given the most recent estimate that more than £321 million would be required to enforce the bill. We now have another budget and, again, the police will not receive the uplift in funding that they need.

Our hard-working justice sector has been struggling for years under this SNP Government. Audit Scotland recently reported that

“there is no evidence that 16,500 police officers … are the right numbers to deliver an effective police service for the future.”

In statistics that were published just today, we see that, once again, the number of police officers in Scotland has dropped. Ten years ago, Scotland had 17,263 officers. The latest figures show that we now have only 16,416. Proper enforcement requires resources, so I urge the SNP Government to finally ensure that our police force is sufficiently resourced.

The vast majority of sex workers are pushed into the trade by a range of disastrous circumstances. Venessa MacLeod was sold into prostitution at the age of just 17 because she risked becoming homeless and a friend took advantage of her. Human trafficking and exploitation, poverty, lack of opportunity, substance abuse, family breakdown and a lack of decent housing are all contributing factors. As a result, it is welcome that Ash Regan has included in her bill a right to support for those who are in or exiting the industry.

As I said at the beginning of my speech, the bill is not perfect. Voices have raised serious concerns, and we must not dismiss them. However, addressing some questions and points that have been raised about the bill could help to strengthen it and further the positive impact that it could have on Scotland. Before we get there, I reaffirm that we support the principles in the bill. We appreciate the severity of the matter, we appreciate the survivors for sharing their experiences with us, and we agree with Ash Regan that solving these problems should be of the utmost importance.

16:56

We have seen the High Court of Justiciary impose four-year custodial sentences for knife assaults that have caused severe injury, permanent disfigurement and even cases in which emergency brain surgery was required. Can the cabinet secretary confirm whether, under her proposals, offenders who are convicted of crimes of that gravity could be released after serving only around 30 per cent of their sentence? If so, how can she possibly expect the public to have confidence in the justice system when judges impose four years only for offenders to be released after little more than a year?

During the scrutiny of the bill, I and my colleagues on the Criminal Justice Committee heard of the trauma and devastation that involvement in prostitution can cause. This morning, Ash Regan shared with us the experiences of some survivors of prostitution. Those experiences struck me, and I believe that it is important that we listen to survivors. Venessa MacLeod recounted that she felt little more than

“an object, an item of purchased property that men felt entitled to use however they wanted.”

She wrote of her experience, which left her feeling so severely traumatised that she was

“stuck in a never-ending cycle of fear, flashbacks and panic.”

Eradicating prostitution is clearly not an easy task, but, as elected representatives, we are duty bound to try our best. We believe that much of the bill will support that cause, even if there is room for improving and tightening up some of the ideas within it.

I thank Ash Regan for bringing this important bill to the chamber. As we are nearing the end of this parliamentary session, I am concerned that we may not have enough time to work out the required amendments, but I am disappointed that the SNP Government is prepared to reject the bill without trying. Given that the SNP has brought bills to the chamber that have required hundreds of amendments, as Liam Kerr said earlier, SNP members could at least try if they wanted to.

It is absolutely right that the burden of criminality is taken away from vulnerable people at one end of the scale, many of whom are victims of serious crime, and moved on to the powerful, coercive and opportunistic users at the other end.

There is evidence from other countries that many of the measures proposed in the bill would have a positive impact, but there is also evidence that, if they are not implemented properly, the bill might not have the meaningful impact that it is designed to have.

As things stand, the incidence of crimes associated with prostitution is rising, and many victims of human trafficking and coercion are victims of sexual exploitation. We must ensure that, along with creating a new offence, our authorities have the power and the tools to enforce it. I am glad to see that Police Scotland is supportive of the bill, but the police must also fret about their capabilities when it comes to acting on any new laws, given the most recent estimate that more than £321 million would be required to enforce the bill. We now have another budget and, again, the police will not receive the uplift in funding that they need.

Our hard-working justice sector has been struggling for years under this SNP Government. Audit Scotland recently reported that

“there is no evidence that 16,500 police officers … are the right numbers to deliver an effective police service for the future.”

In statistics that were published just today, we see that, once again, the number of police officers in Scotland has dropped. Ten years ago, Scotland had 17,263 officers. The latest figures show that we now have only 16,416. Proper enforcement requires resources, so I urge the SNP Government to finally ensure that our police force is sufficiently resourced.

The vast majority of sex workers are pushed into the trade by a range of disastrous circumstances. Venessa MacLeod was sold into prostitution at the age of just 17 because she risked becoming homeless and a friend took advantage of her. Human trafficking and exploitation, poverty, lack of opportunity, substance abuse, family breakdown and a lack of decent housing are all contributing factors. As a result, it is welcome that Ash Regan has included in her bill a right to support for those who are in or exiting the industry.

As I said at the beginning of my speech, the bill is not perfect. Voices have raised serious concerns, and we must not dismiss them. However, addressing some questions and points that have been raised about the bill could help to strengthen it and further the positive impact that it could have on Scotland. Before we get there, I reaffirm that we support the principles in the bill. We appreciate the severity of the matter, we appreciate the survivors for sharing their experiences with us, and we agree with Ash Regan that solving these problems should be of the utmost importance.

16:56

I recently received a letter from Angela Constance, the justice secretary, in which she said two things: that the Scottish Government accepts the Supreme Court ruling and that the guidance for prisons

“does not need to be changed.”

I will clarify that. The Scottish Government accepts the Supreme Court ruling on sex, but it also thinks that it is perfectly fine for male prisoners to be housed alongside vulnerable women. How can the Scottish Government justify holding that ludicrous position?

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.

The serious organised crime task force has acknowledged that the scale of child sexual abuse and exploitation is hidden and underreported and that national monitoring is weak. Given that the Government admits that it does not know the true scale of the abuse, what specific evidential threshold from the national review does the cabinet secretary need to establish a full national inquiry into grooming gangs in Scotland?

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.