Chamber and committees

I would like to see more.

When did you first become aware of the issues with the builders refund guarantee? Was it that week?

Good morning, First Minister. I want to go back to the announcement of the preferred bidder. Can you tell us why you personally announced FMEL as the preferred bidder for the contract and whether that is something that you would normally do?

Did you instigate that, or did somebody—a transport official, a minister or a cabinet secretary—come to you?

Morag McNeill from CMAL said that it became aware on 21 August 2015 that FMEL could not provide a guarantee and that the preferred option was to go back to the tendering process. She said that, at the CMAL board meeting on 25 August,

“Transport Scotland was clear that the announcement was going ahead.”

When asked whether CMAL was happy to go forward, she said:

“Our preference was to retender. We were authorised by our shareholder to proceed. That was an instruction to proceed.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 30 June 2022; c 13, 5.]

Was there an interest from the Scottish Government to award the contract to FMEL? Was it a kind of jobs for the boys situation? There has been talk of the relationship between the Scottish Government and Jim McColl. Was there an interest from the Scottish Government to award the contract?

Social security in Scotland is undergoing its biggest transformation in generations. With that comes many opportunities, but the journey is not without its challenges. The system’s success is essential for the wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of our fellow Scots, and it is in the interests of all parties in the chamber to support the system where appropriate.

I am a member of the Public Audit Committee, and the section 23 report about the progress of implementing the devolved benefits was one of the few positive reports that the committee has discussed over the past few months. The Auditor General for Scotland noted that

“the implementation of the”

new

“social security powers”

was

“going well.”

However, he drew the committee’s attention to substantial risks that remain unaddressed.

To look at the positives, Social Security Scotland now administers 12 benefits. As mentioned in the motion, we are now seeing automation of some of those benefits, which is a welcome development. Child winter heating assistance is paid automatically, based on entitlement, and the carers allowance supplement payments are made automatically. In addition, by the end of the year, the Scottish Government is aiming to award the best start grant, the early learning payment and the school age payment automatically to eligible families in receipt of the Scottish child payment, which is welcome news.

However, as I mentioned, new systems face challenges and Social Security Scotland is not immune to those. When giving evidence to the Public Audit Committee, the Auditor General highlighted three

“substantial remaining risks, including assessing relevant data, putting in place longer-term digital solutions and getting operational staffing in place.”

He went on to say that

“Managing those effectively will be crucial.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 23 June 2022; c 29.]

Therefore, I will use some of my time today to focus specifically on the issue of data collection and measuring outcomes.

Lack of data is a problem that has been highlighted in numerous Audit Scotland reports. I believe that all of us across the chamber can agree that without data it is near impossible to determine whether solutions are cost effective and are achieving the desired outcomes. We need to be looking at the outcomes; otherwise, it is like throwing money into the fire, and the people whom we are trying to help see no long-term benefit.

As it stands, the baseline data is there to tell us how many of those who are entitled are claiming a benefit, but it does not go much further than that. For example, less than one third of eligible Scots took up the job start payment—that is the lowest estimated take-up rate for any Scottish benefit. Only 73 per cent of those who were estimated to be eligible for the young carer grant claimed it in 2021-22, and only 66 per cent of eligible Scots received the funeral support payment.

Why? The truth is that we do not know. We need to find out why—what is preventing people from applying? We need to find out what the barriers are and remove them. We need to speak to the people on the ground to find out what is happening, but, more importantly, we need to listen and to take action. I noted what the minister said in his speech about the actions that he is taking and that he is going to write to us about them, which will be appreciated.

Poor data collection and evaluation are persistent problems that the Government regularly runs into. One policy area that has been negatively impacted by the absence of sufficient data collection and evaluation is tackling child poverty. As highlighted in Audit Scotland’s “Tackling Child Poverty” report, it is abundantly clear that a crucial barrier to developing sufficiently targeted policies is the absence of children and families with lived experience of poverty in the policy development stage. Again, that is something that I have noted on various topics in various reports. We need to spend more time in the policy development stage, work out what it is that we want to achieve, listen to stakeholders and put in timescales, targets and measurements for outcomes.

We should be using every tool at our disposal to understand why there is only partial uptake of some benefits and whether they are even delivering the desired outcomes. A system that does not listen to the people whom it sets out to help is simply unsustainable. It requires two-way communication. In fact, a key recommendation of the “Tackling Child Poverty” report includes working with stakeholders such as

“local government, the third sector,”

the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and people

“with lived experience of poverty to ... set out how ... actions ... will be delivered, monitored, and their impact evaluated.”

I reiterate that no matter how much or how little progress has been made, if the Scottish Government truly wants to build a system that works for Scotland, the data must capture a detailed picture of that system’s workings and its impact, and stakeholder involvement must be woven throughout its operation. Given the ever-changing nature of the external environment, the system must be flexible, adaptable to change and set up with the input of stakeholders.

Ukrainians coming to Scotland will require legal advice, among other services. Ukrainian lawyers who relocate to Scotland have the capacity to do a huge amount of good here, and the value of their linguistic and legal skills during the crisis has already been highlighted by the Law Society of Scotland. What attempts has the Scottish Government made to utilise Ukrainian lawyers during the resettlement process, and what processes are in place to overcome any Ukrainian-English language barrier?

So they are all fully aware of what help and support is available.

You said that there has been an uplift in staff. Are you fully manned in that area? Do you have the two team leaders in place?

For how long have the team leaders been in position?